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Guest
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 Posted: Thu, Jul 28 2011, 11:37 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: |
I am curious whether any of the existing Library Board members or fundraising campaign chairs would pledge on the record that they have no intent of ever seeking public funds from Cranbury Township to supplement the final costs for the building or the parking and access and would support abandoning the project should it not 100% achieve all costs through private donations and other non-taxpayer sources such as grants. I suspect we will hear crickets on that challenge, kind of like the swim club board members response to the request to state on the record that they have enough cash to pay back the outstanding bond requests. |
Your challenge doesn't make sense. For one thing, there is already $500,000 of tax revenueset aside for the project.
Beyond that, if a thru road and a parking lot are going to benefit the school, Main st businesses AND the library, it seems reasonable to expect the town and/or school to contribute to make that happenn.
Lots of people think the road and parking lot are a good idea regardless of a new library. |
Why does it seem reasonable for the "Town and/or School" to contribute to the Libraries parking lot? |
Do you think it is reasonable to expect the library to pay all of the costs of a municipal parking lot that will be used by the school, library and town? |
Yes, it makes sense for the library to pay for a parking lot for their new building since it would be primarily built for the library. Is there a plan to build it otherwise? |
Yes. In fact, it is called the "Master plan"; and it includes the possibility of a road connection and municipal parking lot because several groups have considered these ideas for years, independent of the library. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Jul 28 2011, 11:50 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Quote: | | Do you think it is reasonable to expect the library to pay all of the costs of a municipal parking lot that will be used by the school, library and town? |
Why would the School and Township use the lot? Don't they have a lot? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 12:30 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| This is what I knew would happen. It starts out this new library is completely self financed. Now it turns out the school and township are supposed to build a road and parking lot! How much does this cost? I have no idea about the parking lot, but that road would be at least a million dollars. That would be school and township money, in other words taxpayer dollars. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 2:21 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | | This is what I knew would happen. It starts out this new library is completely self financed. Now it turns out the school and township are supposed to build a road and parking lot! How much does this cost? I have no idea about the parking lot, but that road would be at least a million dollars. That would be school and township money, in other words taxpayer dollars. |
How do you come to the 1 million figure? Please state facts and not your opinion. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 6:21 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | | This is what I knew would happen. It starts out this new library is completely self financed. Now it turns out the school and township are supposed to build a road and parking lot! How much does this cost? I have no idea about the parking lot, but that road would be at least a million dollars. That would be school and township money, in other words taxpayer dollars. |
Dear Chicken Little,
Relax. The town and the school are not required to do anything. The road and parking lot are simply hypothetical. The library doesn't require a road, or a big municipal parking lot. If the town chooses tomake a parking lot next to the library, the library will use it. If not, the library will probably be required toadd a small parking lot to their plans. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 8:25 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | This is what I knew would happen. It starts out this new library is completely self financed. Now it turns out the school and township are supposed to build a road and parking lot! How much does this cost? I have no idea about the parking lot, but that road would be at least a million dollars. That would be school and township money, in other words taxpayer dollars. |
How do you come to the 1 million figure? Please state facts and not your opinion. |
Last time they tried to build a road in the same place the cost was over 1 million dollars, pay attention. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 8:27 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | This is what I knew would happen. It starts out this new library is completely self financed. Now it turns out the school and township are supposed to build a road and parking lot! How much does this cost? I have no idea about the parking lot, but that road would be at least a million dollars. That would be school and township money, in other words taxpayer dollars. |
Dear Chicken Little,
Relax. The town and the school are not required to do anything. The road and parking lot are simply hypothetical. The library doesn't require a road, or a big municipal parking lot. If the town chooses tomake a parking lot next to the library, the library will use it. If not, the library will probably be required toadd a small parking lot to their plans. |
You relax. Over and over we are told it won't cost the tax payers anything. Now library supporters are saying they need a road and a parking lot at tax payer expense, classic bait and switch. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 9:20 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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The municipal parking lot is in the newest Master Plan. This would be mainly to help with the Main Street parking situation. The library could benefit from this, but is not dependent on it to be built.
The road deal is something that a previous school board had asked about, we had funding for, but it feel through due to some objecting to some of the details.
If the town decides to do this in the future, it would benefit many.
The current school parking is lot is used by the school, town hall, Princeton Ballet, and the library. I would say that it works well 90% of the time, with some obvious exceptions - 8:15-8:40,
2:50-3:30, and 3/4 times a year when the school has evening events.
Requiring the library to fix a town problem is not realistic. We all have to work on this together. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 9:42 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: |
I am curious whether any of the existing Library Board members or fundraising campaign chairs would pledge on the record that they ... would support abandoning the project should it not 100% achieve all costs through private donations and other non-taxpayer sources such as grants.
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Your challenge doesn't make sense. For one thing, there is already $500,000 of tax revenue set aside for the project... |
You didn’t read it carefully enough... |
Apparently, you didn't read it (or write it) carefully enough. You were pretty clear that your challenge includes "100% costs through private donations and other non-taxpayer sources." Your challenge doesn't make sense because $500k of taxpayer revenue is already set aside for the project. |
I'm not the challenge poster, but what's the point of equivocating over the language of the post? That's a dumb argument. Trying to find some phrase in the language to harp on and ignore the point is just an act of diversion. Whatever you think they meant or wrote, they have clarified that they meant not asking for taxpayer money beyond what they get from the regular required library contributions. Maybe you want to try and dodge the question? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 9:50 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | The municipal parking lot is in the newest Master Plan. This would be mainly to help with the Main Street parking situation. The library could benefit from this, but is not dependent on it to be built.
The road deal is something that a previous school board had asked about, we had funding for, but it feel through due to some objecting to some of the details.
If the town decides to do this in the future, it would benefit many.
The current school parking is lot is used by the school, town hall, Princeton Ballet, and the library. I would say that it works well 90% of the time, with some obvious exceptions - 8:15-8:40,
2:50-3:30, and 3/4 times a year when the school has evening events.
Requiring the library to fix a town problem is not realistic. We all have to work on this together. |
You realize that something being in the master plan is not the same as an actual intent let alone approval to build, right? There have been things in the previous master plans for decades that were never done, including the library. The Master Plan is approved by the Planning Board but any real action is done by the Township Committee which does not have a vote beyond its minority participation on the Planning Board on the Master Plan. So saying something is in it as proof of anything is pointless.
There has been talk of the road to Park Place for decades as well as additional parking, So far it has never happened. At the recent library presentation at the School Board meeting they even said they doubted the road would ever be built. So clearly there is little political momentum to build the road extension unrelated to the need generated by the library project.
To say the library project doesn't need it is ridiculous. Of course it does. They can show powerpoints of hypothetical buildings all day long, but before it came close to being a reality they would be required to prove they either wouldn't be putting extra burden on the existing parking lot and single access or that they could provide additional parking or access. They won't be able to prove the former or if they did they would be undermining their own justification for the project itself. So they will have to pursue additional parking. They all know this. When you talk with them privately they realize parking will come up eventually.
Sure in a few years if the stars align and the Township Committee has independently decided to pursue the additional parking or road expansion anyway, that's great for the library. But it is cynical to pretend that is a given or that the project works without it. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 9:55 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | | If not, the library will probably be required toadd a small parking lot to their plans. |
Where exactly?
The plan wouldn't allow it between the library building and the ballfield and there isn't enough room anyway. So that means behind the library. In fact, they library planners know this will end up happening which is why if you study their proposed plan it shows an entrance from the backside that is equal to the entrance from the school side. Why would they do this if it were just going to be fields?
Second point. The plan only allows enough room between the library and the tennis courts for a one-way road and their plan specifically shows the "potential" one way road. So for them to add any parking at all they will have to do so from behind the building and they will have to extend to Park Place to allow two-way access between it. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 10:55 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | The municipal parking lot is in the newest Master Plan. This would be mainly to help with the Main Street parking situation. The library could benefit from this, but is not dependent on it to be built.
The road deal is something that a previous school board had asked about, we had funding for, but it feel through due to some objecting to some of the details.
If the town decides to do this in the future, it would benefit many.
The current school parking is lot is used by the school, town hall, Princeton Ballet, and the library. I would say that it works well 90% of the time, with some obvious exceptions - 8:15-8:40,
2:50-3:30, and 3/4 times a year when the school has evening events.
Requiring the library to fix a town problem is not realistic. We all have to work on this together. |
We have to work on this together? What is the library doing to solve the parking problem they will be creating? The least they can do is pay for the whole project which includes parking. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 3:52 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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Just saw a rendering of the inside of the proposed Cranbury library, outside is modern but inside is all antique, think they got inspired by the Library of Alexandria
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 5:11 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | Just saw a rendering of the inside of the proposed Cranbury library, outside is modern but inside is all antique, think they got inspired by the Library of Alexandria
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Very nice. Still no parking though! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 5:26 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | This is what I knew would happen. It starts out this new library is completely self financed. Now it turns out the school and township are supposed to build a road and parking lot! How much does this cost? I have no idea about the parking lot, but that road would be at least a million dollars. That would be school and township money, in other words taxpayer dollars. |
Dear Chicken Little,
Relax. The town and the school are not required to do anything. The road and parking lot are simply hypothetical. The library doesn't require a road, or a big municipal parking lot. If the town chooses tomake a parking lot next to the library, the library will use it. If not, the library will probably be required toadd a small parking lot to their plans. |
You relax. Over and over we are told it won't cost the tax payers anything. Now library supporters are saying they need a road and a parking lot at tax payer expense, classic bait and switch. |
Dear Chicken Little,
You should be familiar with this- it is a classic "chicken and egg" scenario. The town identifies an area for a municipal parking lot in the master plan, along with a place for the library. Which comes first, if either, is anyone's guess. Neither is guaranteed to be built.
However, the library assumes the town will build the parking lot before (or at the same time) they build the library. You seem to believe the library will be in a position to be built before the parking lot. We have a long way to go before either of those things is seriously ready to move forward.
If the library is ready first, you can bet they will expect the town to handle the parking lot. The town can choose not to at that time. However, keep in mind that if the library raises $2.7 million through private donations, the likelihood is that the majority of the town will have contributed and will be supporting the library at that point. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jul 29 2011, 5:29 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Unveils Plans for New Library |
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| Guest wrote: | Just saw a rendering of the inside of the proposed Cranbury library, outside is modern but inside is all antique, think they got inspired by the Library of Alexandria
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Where's the running track and the easement markings for Cranbury’s other spectacular attractions? |
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