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Tax Payer-7407 Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 11:03 am EST Post subject: Property Taxes |
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In The Sunday Star-Ledger, the state as well as Middlesex County Property Taxes by town for 2012 and percent change from the previous year were published.
Cranbury was ranked in Middlesex County number 1 in Average Assessment, County Tax ($2,254), and total tax ($11,099).
Cranbury slipped to number 2 in school tax ($6,240) and percent change (5.0%) tied with Jamesburg.
It dropped to number 4 in the county for municipal tax ($2,605). The county average was for municipal tax was $1,938.
The percent change in property tax for the county was 1.8% and the state was 1.7%. Our 5% was second in the county after Monroe's 8.4%.
Cranbury's high property tax ranking demands explanations and justifications. There may be nothing to cheer about!
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anon-0n08 Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 11:32 am EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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You're leaving out selective facts. For example, Cranbury has one of the highest, if not the highest, average property values in the county. Higher property values tend to have higher absolute taxes, but not necessarily a high tax rate. Cranbury's taxes have definitely escalated significantly in the last 5 years. Before then, we had the second highest taxes in absolute dollars but the lowest tax rate in the county factoring in property values.
As a small town, we're particularly vulnerable to changes impacting our tax rate. Property values are down, which drive tax rates up. More importantly, they are down even lower for commercial properties than residential, shifting more of the burden to residential taxes. Five years ago commercial properties paid over half our taxes. Not anymore. We're also screwed by the state on school taxes because we're prosperous and have a good school. We send far more taxes to the state for education that we get back. We're subsidizing other schools in the county and state via this process. Jamesburg, Monroe, etc. get a huge amount of their budget from the state while we get a small single-digit percent. As that's declined, the tax rate for the school tax has gone up. Add to all this that we have a lot of infrastructure projects at the school and town. Dam, sewer, you name it. And don't forget unfunded "state mandates." They make up almost 40% of the schools budget. |
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anon-73o5 Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 12:01 pm EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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Need more warehouses and businesses in town. Stop making businesses jump through hoops to move in. Robbinsville just secured Amazon for their town. What's Cranbury doing? Buying more farm land and complaining. |
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Response-anon-7407 Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 12:18 pm EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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The quick convoluted and defensive response to the Cranbury Property Tax postings neglected the mention of the first ranked property assessment. Read it again, Charlie.
Facts are facts and no number of lame excuses can justify the high property taxes here.
Let's elect representatives who have some feeling fot the average taxpayer and cut out the justifications that neglect considering the pocketbook of those taxpayers. |
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hey-8p94 Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 12:28 pm EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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anon-73o5 wrote: | Need more warehouses and businesses in town. Stop making businesses jump through hoops to move in. Robbinsville just secured Amazon for their town. What's Cranbury doing? Buying more farm land and complaining. |
I agree with your statement on warehouses and businesses. However, your snotty statement on farmland is misguided. The plan for the last thirty years to maintain a village and keep taxes as low as possible has been to encourage warehouse and commercial development on the east side of 130 AND preserve farmland on the westside. In the long run, preserving farmland is a tax savings. The more residential development we allow the higher taxes will go.
The old farts that are so often complained about on this forum were pretty smart when it came to this plan. Unfortunately, we have not been so smart when carrying it out. |
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anon-403n Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 2:49 pm EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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The farmland bought was in residential areas for the most part. There is only one area in the warehouse zone that was bought. Thus, it stopped damage from more housing stock.
You can easily lower the average assessed like the other towns and add more housing if the condo/ townhouse variety. That will drive down the average home value as condos don't sell for 500k in this area and will have more housing stock. Thus average property taxes will fall.
The township has fewer housing stock compared to most towns and even our low end homes have higher value. If you want a true comparison look at the taxes paid by the same cost home.
Or look at what you get. I'd take the Cranbury school system over every other town and then Plainsboro. I wouldn't touch the other schools in our county. |
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anon-0n08 Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 2:52 pm EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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Response-anon-7407 wrote: | The quick convoluted and defensive response to the Cranbury Property Tax postings neglected the mention of the first ranked property assessment. Read it again, Charlie.
Facts are facts and no number of lame excuses can justify the high property taxes here.
Let's elect representatives who have some feeling fot the average taxpayer and cut out the justifications that neglect considering the pocketbook of those taxpayers. |
Wow, where to start. I didn't realize you were looking for a "defense" of property tax rates. I certainly wasn't making one. I said they had gone up substantially in the last 5 years. You said, and I quote you: "Cranbury's high property tax ranking demands explanations and justifications", so I offered some explanation as you "demanded." You can take it or leave it, but you didn't contradict any of the points which are straight forward statements of fact. And as you say, facts are facts. Calling them excuses is funny. Do you think property taxes are like homework. The dog didn't eat it. When property values go down, so does tax revenue until rates go up. It's like calling gravity an "excuse" for why things fall.
As for electing representatives who "have some feelings for the average taxpayer," who do you think our representatives are? Hedge Fund titans from Manhattan? These people are taxpayers. Most of them are pretty representative of Cranbury economically. There was an election just a few months ago and taxpayers re-elected the representatives we have. |
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anon-403n Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 3:14 pm EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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I just looked at the table. If I look at cateret the average county bill is 811.37 vs us at 2,253.93. Yet their average municipal bill is 2461.73. So one would assume the only static rate is county. So this shows cateret is substantially higher on the municipal level.
Plainsboro pays the county 1,468.92. So they have a lower average home. Their municipal average is 1430.30 vs us at 2605. Very close given the county difference. On schools Plainsboro is 6336 vs us at 6240 so we have higher value home, but lower school on average. The avg tax we pay is 11,099.41, but Plainsboro is 9,2655.
Taking that Cranbury pays about 1.5x more to the county than Plainsboro let's equal the value out. 1.5x on municipal means Plainsboro would pay 2,194 on same value, 9768 for schools at the same value and overall 14,126 vs 11,099.41 for the same value home. Factor in if aid were the same and Cranbury would be even better.
It's not an easy apples to apples comparison if you only want to compare what one average home pays vs another if the home values are not equal. |
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mr ploppy-109q Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 9:47 pm EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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When all of those warehouses moved in a few years ago, our taxes actually went down a bit!
Then the owners caught wise and had the town take a look at the residential tax rates and VOOM!
Up the taxes went.
The assessment company had the nerve to say that my place was worth well over 600k, when it was really about half of that at the time.
They were a bunch of pinheads.
I guess they were the lowest bidder.
Those warehouse owners knew what they were getting into when they built here. Why did they have to upset the apple cart?
They also wanted Cranbury to build some "affordable housing" to house the workers that worked in the warehouses for slave wages.
Must be a nice racket to be a builder in this state!!!!!!!!! |
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anon-8q9r Guest
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Posted: Tue, Jan 15 2013, 9:56 pm EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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What would you change?
Response-anon-7407 wrote: | The quick convoluted and defensive response to the Cranbury Property Tax postings neglected the mention of the first ranked property assessment. Read it again, Charlie.
Facts are facts and no number of lame excuses can justify the high property taxes here.
Let's elect representatives who have some feeling fot the average taxpayer and cut out the justifications that neglect considering the pocketbook of those taxpayers. |
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anon-97on Guest
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Posted: Wed, Jan 16 2013, 7:57 am EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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mr ploppy-109q wrote: | When all of those warehouses moved in a few years ago, our taxes actually went down a bit!
Then the owners caught wise and had the town take a look at the residential tax rates and VOOM!
Up the taxes went.
The assessment company had the nerve to say that my place was worth well over 600k, when it was really about half of that at the time.
They were a bunch of pinheads.
I guess they were the lowest bidder.
Those warehouse owners knew what they were getting into when they built here. Why did they have to upset the apple cart?
They also wanted Cranbury to build some "affordable housing" to house the workers that worked in the warehouses for slave wages.
Must be a nice racket to be a builder in this state!!!!!!!!! |
Owners didn't suddenly "get wise." They'll typically wise from the start. They just didn't wake up and figure out how to lower their taxes. The economy shifted and commercial values declined faster than residential values. The reassessment was based on October 2006 prices, the absolute height of the local market. All prices then were at historic highs, by a substantial margin. I seriously doubt your property was worth $300k then because almost no property with a home on it was -- that was about half the average value at the time. Besides, even if you felt they were high they were more or less consistently high which would have meant you were still paying proportionately the correct rate relative to your neighbors. Also, you're perfectly entitled to appeal assessments as the property values have gone down over the years since. Many have and have had substantial reductions in their assessments, just as the commercial district has. And you seriously think warehouse owners are supposed to voluntarily pay taxes based on outdated property values when many of their properties are sitting half vacant or more?
You also on confused about the business owners wanting us to built affordable housing. Not true. The STATE was requiring us to do that. Local business owners actually came to hearings to testify that they state's formula for affordable housing requirements was significantly overstating the actual need. |
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publius-109q Guest
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Posted: Thu, Jan 17 2013, 9:10 pm EST Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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anon-97on wrote: | mr ploppy-109q wrote: | When all of those warehouses moved in a few years ago, our taxes actually went down a bit!
Then the owners caught wise and had the town take a look at the residential tax rates and VOOM!
Up the taxes went.
The assessment company had the nerve to say that my place was worth well over 600k, when it was really about half of that at the time.
They were a bunch of pinheads.
I guess they were the lowest bidder.
Those warehouse owners knew what they were getting into when they built here. Why did they have to upset the apple cart?
They also wanted Cranbury to build some "affordable housing" to house the workers that worked in the warehouses for slave wages.
Must be a nice racket to be a builder in this state!!!!!!!!! |
Owners didn't suddenly "get wise." They'll typically wise from the start. They just didn't wake up and figure out how to lower their taxes. The economy shifted and commercial values declined faster than residential values. The reassessment was based on October 2006 prices, the absolute height of the local market. All prices then were at historic highs, by a substantial margin. I seriously doubt your property was worth $300k then because almost no property with a home on it was -- that was about half the average value at the time. Besides, even if you felt they were high they were more or less consistently high which would have meant you were still paying proportionately the correct rate relative to your neighbors. Also, you're perfectly entitled to appeal assessments as the property values have gone down over the years since. Many have and have had substantial reductions in their assessments, just as the commercial district has. And you seriously think warehouse owners are supposed to voluntarily pay taxes based on outdated property values when many of their properties are sitting half vacant or more?
You also on confused about the business owners wanting us to built affordable housing. Not true. The STATE was requiring us to do that. Local business owners actually came to hearings to testify that they state's formula for affordable housing requirements was significantly overstating the actual need. |
If you were paying any attention at all, the state's formula for housing was based on how much warehouse square footage was located in this town! If that not a scam between our government and the builders, I don't know what is!
Anyway, the builders should've known what their tax rates were before they built anything. The ratables are supposed to HELP the residents, not thrust us into bankruptcy. A few people are paying twice as much as they used to. |
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anon-8455 Guest
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Posted: Mon, Jun 17 2013, 10:36 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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Higher property value does not justify nor should we allow our community to continue to rank number one for highest taxes. |
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anon-40n0 Guest
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Posted: Mon, Jun 17 2013, 10:44 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Property Taxes |
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Without significantly reducing services, it would be refreshing to see some proactive suggestions that would save the town money to support a reduced budget.
I believe our TC is open to suggestions.
So my advice is give a little more suggestion, and a little less criticism.
Nobody likes paying more taxes, it just doesn't seem productive to continue to complain about it. |
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