Library's surveillance policy is discussed
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$377,000 libray empl-pp98
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PostPosted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 5:22 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

the library budget for this year $500,000 $377,000 of this is to pay library employees the library is open limited hours on weekends and evenings the library budget 2015 http://www.cranburypubliclibrary.org/Budget%202015.pdf
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anon-4381
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PostPosted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 9:55 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

$377,000 libray empl-pp98 wrote:
the library budget for this year $500,000 $377,000 of this is to pay library employees the library is open limited hours on weekends and evenings the library budget 2015 http://www.cranburypubliclibrary.org/Budget%202015.pdf


Other local community libraries are able to maintain similar hours with half the budget. Our library is staffed and our librarians are compensated like a bigger, busier library.

Perhaps some of the impetus for empire building at our little local community library is to justify the high salaries and positions. For example, many observers would find it exorbitant to invest $75k per year in a children's librarian for a library located within a school that also employs a school librarian.

Imagine the alternative uses for that investment.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:10 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

I am not disagreeing, but if you're going to make statements. Please post the comparisons you're using.

So what are these smaller libraries, hours, staff numbers and wages.

Personally, I work as do most people in town. So I'd rather see reduced hours during the week day and more weekend hours.
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anon-pp44
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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 8 2015, 9:50 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

Fact is that the school has been and continues to be uncomfortable with the arrangement of the public library in the school building. The independent study of the combined library space in 2007 or 2008 pointed out inadequate space for either school library or public library and “stranger danger” for the school.

Another fact: There is no evidence that the library board deliberated planted information or a “homeless” person in the library to raise concerns with the school board.

One can try and change the focus of the original Cranbury Press news post, but the truth is that the school does not want the public library in the school. It does not meet school security standards. Plus they can’t even fully use the school library.
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anon-q2q6
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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 8 2015, 5:36 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

anon-pp44 wrote:
Fact is that the school has been and continues to be uncomfortable with the arrangement of the public library in the school building. The independent study of the combined library space in 2007 or 2008 pointed out inadequate space for either school library or public library and “stranger danger” for the school.

Another fact: There is no evidence that the library board deliberated planted information or a “homeless” person in the library to raise concerns with the school board.

One can try and change the focus of the original Cranbury Press news post, but the truth is that the school does not want the public library in the school. It does not meet school security standards. Plus they can’t even fully use the school library.


Fact is, the school is not pushing for a new library building, the library board is. If the school is concerned about security, there are many alternatives to increasing security as opposed to spending millions of dollars on a new library building.
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anon;0qs4-03sq
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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 8 2015, 6:03 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

The Library Board is the force behind this misguided building of another monument to a few, by a few ,ie; the Field of Dreams baseball field fiasco. The Committee should also take responsibility for the Taj Mahal Library that will cost all taxpayers a bundle over our lifetimes---without the blessing and approval of the township this cannot get placed on the backs of the taxpayers who, as a majority, DO NOT want this Library. This major burden on the taxpayers should be put to a required vote of ALL taxpayers either yes or no!
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anon-46s0
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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 8 2015, 6:18 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

The TC will not pay additional funds. So if built the library will operate on current funding. If they do not then they will need to adjust.

The TC has been pretty clear on this point.
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anon;oqs4-03sq
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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 8 2015, 9:55 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

But without the blessing of the Township Committee with both LAND and Access they cannot build this new library.
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anon-q2q6
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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 9 2015, 7:11 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

anon-pp44 wrote:


Another fact: There is no evidence that the library board deliberated planted information or a “homeless” person in the library to raise concerns with the school board.


How do you suppose Mr. Hadap came to learn about this Boogie Man in the library?

Is Mr. Hadap running his own library surveillance program, or was he "informed" at the library board meeting a few days before the school board meeting?

Boogie Man scare tactics by the library board... Shame, shame, shame!
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anon-489q
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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 9 2015, 7:28 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

anon;oqs4-03sq wrote:
But without the blessing of the Township Committee with both LAND and Access they cannot build this new library.


The land is part of the master plan. The TC has stated it will only be turned over when funds are available.
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anon-ppq2
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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 9 2015, 8:26 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

We have an real opportunity to discuss the public library here. When we post things like Taj Mahal or field of dreams, this does not add to the discussion. The new building is not a Taj Mahal (are you saying too large and overly ornate?) and it is not a "field of dreams" (are you saying that it is like a baseball field that is seldom used?)

Let's discuss this honestly here. I have heard that the foundation has raised over 2 million dollars so the building will be built. We are not longer talking about whether this will happen or not.

What are the real issues?
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anon-sp0n
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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 9 2015, 5:16 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

Since you asked, some "real issues":

1) The Master Plan also shows additional parking behind the new library and a new access road between the current school/Town Hall parking area and Park place, to alleviate the bottleneck from the single entrance/exit at Schoolhouse Road. The funding goal for the new Library does not include costs to cover those expenses, even though the tipping point for requiring them is tied to the new library. So, does the Library Board expect the Township to pay for it (in which case they are expecting Township money to complete the project) or are they arguing they can add the additional library with no impact on existing traffic or parking? And if the latter, if there is no expected incremental traffic or parkers, and therefore no additional use over the current building, then why would a new one be needed?

2) The current campaign funding goal is based on a budget that assumed construction soon. If the full campaign is not reached by then, what will happen? If construction is delayed, currently construction costs are escalating ~7%/year. So will the campaign goal be increased to account for this? If work is started without a full campaign, what happens if the campaign is not completed before the project runs out of funding? Will the project be stopped half-build or would there be a request to get the Township to help out? Even if the Township was not requested to bridge the construction completion, is it reasonable to begin a project that is not fully funded knowing it could result in an unsightly or even unsafe construction zone for an indefinite period of time if the project had to be halted before completion?

3) What happens to all the money raised if the Library campaign doesn't reach the necessary goal to construction the new building? Is it returned to the contributors? Does it become general funds for the Library? Who legally controls it?

4) Has the Library done a study to demonstrate that the long term capital maintenance and improvements requirements of the building can be fully covered in their existing annual funding levels? Over time, the building will require significant maintenance. There would be an offset from the rent they no longer pay the school, but it's unclear how much they are already using that offset to handle the annual operating costs (extra staff, utilities, etc.). In which case, where is the long term upkeep costs coming from? Again, the pitch is this will have no impact on Township funds or taxpayer requirements, so that has to include 20-30 years of maintenance, etc.

5) What will be the impact to the school of the loss of rent, since that in turn affects taxpayers too?
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anon-48s6
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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 9 2015, 6:50 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

anon-ppq2 wrote:
We have an real opportunity to discuss the public library here. The new building... a "field of dreams" (are you saying that it is like a baseball field that is seldom used?)


Yes. The current library is seldomly used by anyone other than school kids, librarians and library board members. There is no reason to believe a new building will change that, particularly in a digital age where libraries are already struggling to remain relevant.

anon-ppq2 wrote:

Let's discuss this honestly here. I have heard that the foundation has raised over 2 million dollars so the building will be built. We are not longer talking about whether this will happen or not.


Yes, we are still discussing "if" this will happen. The library foundation has raised half the donations it needed in twice the amount time it expected and constructions costs have risen every year since the original costs were determined. Donations are barely outpacing the rising construction costs. This project is currently going nowhere, and yet we continue to starve the existing library of resources and common sense hoping to build enough excuses to build a building. Honestly, when is the library board going get back to the business of running a great community library?
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anon-pp98
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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 9 2015, 7:12 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

$377,000 libray empl-pp98 wrote:
the library budget for this year $500,000 $377,000 of this is to pay library employees the library is open limited hours on weekends and evenings the library budget 2015 http://www.cranburypubliclibrary.org/Budget%202015.pdf



I really don’t see how a world can exist where tons of bookstores close (a trend that we’re in the midst of) while libraries generally stay open. I agree that libraries may stick around longer than the underlying consumer behavior supporting them. Why? Because funding libraries is a political, not an economic decision. Nevertheless, I believe strongly that public libraries will turn into ghost towns in five to fifteen years, at which point it will become very difficult to justify funding them and keeping them open. I understand that libraries lend books, which is cheaper than buying them. And yes I understand that there are other reasons to visit a library besides borrowing books. So to be clear: I don’t think that library visiting will disappear as a behavior — just as visiting bookstores hasn’t disappeared as a behavior. However, enough demand will drop to cause industry failure. Why? Because libraries (and bookstores) have high fixed costs that need to be covered by a threshold level of demand.
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anon-ors2
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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 9 2015, 11:23 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

anon-sp0n wrote:
Since you asked, some "real issues":

1) The Master Plan also shows additional parking behind the new library and a new access road between the current school/Town Hall parking area and Park place, to alleviate the bottleneck from the single entrance/exit at Schoolhouse Road. The funding goal for the new Library does not include costs to cover those expenses, even though the tipping point for requiring them is tied to the new library. So, does the Library Board expect the Township to pay for it (in which case they are expecting Township money to complete the project) or are they arguing they can add the additional library with no impact on existing traffic or parking? And if the latter, if there is no expected incremental traffic or parkers, and therefore no additional use over the current building, then why would a new one be needed?

2) The current campaign funding goal is based on a budget that assumed construction soon. If the full campaign is not reached by then, what will happen? If construction is delayed, currently construction costs are escalating ~7%/year. So will the campaign goal be increased to account for this? If work is started without a full campaign, what happens if the campaign is not completed before the project runs out of funding? Will the project be stopped half-build or would there be a request to get the Township to help out? Even if the Township was not requested to bridge the construction completion, is it reasonable to begin a project that is not fully funded knowing it could result in an unsightly or even unsafe construction zone for an indefinite period of time if the project had to be halted before completion?

3) What happens to all the money raised if the Library campaign doesn't reach the necessary goal to construction the new building? Is it returned to the contributors? Does it become general funds for the Library? Who legally controls it?

4) Has the Library done a study to demonstrate that the long term capital maintenance and improvements requirements of the building can be fully covered in their existing annual funding levels? Over time, the building will require significant maintenance. There would be an offset from the rent they no longer pay the school, but it's unclear how much they are already using that offset to handle the annual operating costs (extra staff, utilities, etc.). In which case, where is the long term upkeep costs coming from? Again, the pitch is this will have no impact on Township funds or taxpayer requirements, so that has to include 20-30 years of maintenance, etc.

5) What will be the impact to the school of the loss of rent, since that in turn affects taxpayers too?


Take number 5 off your list. The school makes no money off of the library. It merely covers costs. The school has said this numerous times over the years. I don't know why you continually bring up this point
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ghost town-49po
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PostPosted: Wed, Dec 9 2015, 11:32 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

anon-pp98 wrote:
$377,000 libray empl-pp98 wrote:
the library budget for this year $500,000 $377,000 of this is to pay library employees the library is open limited hours on weekends and evenings the library budget 2015 http://www.cranburypubliclibrary.org/Budget%202015.pdf



I really don’t see how a world can exist where tons of bookstores close (a trend that we’re in the midst of) while libraries generally stay open. I agree that libraries may stick around longer than the underlying consumer behavior supporting them. Why? Because funding libraries is a political, not an economic decision. Nevertheless, I believe strongly that public libraries will turn into ghost towns in five to fifteen years, at which point it will become very difficult to justify funding them and keeping them open. I understand that libraries lend books, which is cheaper than buying them. And yes I understand that there are other reasons to visit a library besides borrowing books. So to be clear: I don’t think that library visiting will disappear as a behavior — just as visiting bookstores hasn’t disappeared as a behavior. However, enough demand will drop to cause industry failure. Why? Because libraries (and bookstores) have high fixed costs that need to be covered by a threshold level of demand.


I agree with your statement whole heartedly and will take it a step farther. The Cranbury library is a ghost town now the majority of the hours it is open. The Library is only busy after school when the kids all go in for a period of about two hours a day Mon - Fri.
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