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Guest* Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 6:43 am EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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A public library on Main Street would be wonderful. The current library is very busy with school children until 6 p.m. I would like a quiet reading area. |
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james Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 8:01 am EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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guest3 wrote: | The Township Committee should definitely look into this possible purchase. This could be as important as acquiring open space.
A library would be a great use for the building. Through NJ State law, our tax money is already supporting the public library so there would not have to be additional cost for maintaining a library. Yes, there is the initial cost, but there is a lot of support for a public library that would better serve all residents of our town. Fund raising could be done as well as doing any renovations in stages so that the cost would not hit all at once.
This possible purchase works on many levels...parking for our downtown, providing a great location for a community center, and preserving our downtown. |
You would have operational costs- Electric, water, insurance, garbage for 2 libraries. Staffing costs for two libraries because you need librarians in both locations. There are also maintenance costs for two libraries periodicals and books and even software licensing.
A public library on a stand alone basis would be a nice. It is not a must have or a need and the town cannot afford it. A school library will likely close at 3pm like most school libraries. Therefore from 3-6pm as another poster stated there would be kids at a stand alone library.
The down town will be preserved regardless because our town regulates appearance and changes. So there is no risk to a change in down town appearance.
I will say if the purchase of the building can be done like a lot of other towns through private donations and grants. Then I would not oppose tax money going for maintenance. However, if fund raising cannot be at a level to cover the costs then it should not be purchased with tax payer money. |
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resident! Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 8:04 am EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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The idea of a gift/purchase agreement with PNC is intriguing. I definitely think that the Township Committee should look into this.
Having a public library on Main Street would be wonderful. We value the family in Cranbury....having a true public library on Main Street would be great for the whole community, not just families that have children at the Cranbury School. |
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Guest* Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 8:31 am EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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The current library already has two staffs...and the NJ State law
provides the money for operational costs.
There is a lot of support for having a separate public library. |
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Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 10:01 am EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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Guest* wrote: | The current library already has two staffs...and the NJ State law
provides the money for operational costs.
There is a lot of support for having a separate public library. |
How do you know there is a lot of support for a separate library? Have you conducted a poll? A vote? Have you personally checked with at least several hundred eleigible voters / tax payers in Cranbury? if not, with all due respect, you are making an assumption based on your personal experience and that of your like-minded friends.
Does the state cover ALL the operating costs for the library? If not, what about the rest? Why should tax payers pick up any of it unless you or the Committee can prove at least a majority of them want it?
And if there are truly 2 totally redundant staffs in the current library, why not save money by removing one of them now? Then we can have one library and save the tax payers money? Not that I believe there are two totally redundant staffs. If so, I don't see them in there often and I frequent the library.
If there is a lot of support for the separate library, can you state the reasons? So far there are two separate posts on this project running here and in all the responses not one person has posted a single reason for the library. There are posts defending it as a good idea and arguing about the costs and what a "deal' the PNC site could be. But not one person has laid out rational reasons we need it. While there have been several posts laying out reasons, yet to be refutted, why we don't. |
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Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 10:04 am EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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resident! wrote: | The idea of a gift/purchase agreement with PNC is intriguing. I definitely think that the Township Committee should look into this.
Having a public library on Main Street would be wonderful. We value the family in Cranbury....having a true public library on Main Street would be great for the whole community, not just families that have children at the Cranbury School. |
The current library is about a 90 second walk from Main Street and is open to the public, not just school kids. It seems like a "true" library to me. What is the definition of "true"? Do you think it has to be its own building or it doesn't count?
Why exactly do we need it? What will it offer the citizens that they don't already have that justifies the use of their tax dollars? |
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another guest Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 10:56 am EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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As I mentioned a while ago, I see lots of benefits for the library to be part of the school. My kids visit library and borrow books to read often all because of the current setup. I believe this setup will benefit all our kids. Please don't "fix" it; it's working well as is now.
Yes, sometimes kids can be noisy. But I believe the librarians are doing a good job trying to reduce the noise level when kids are around. Our kids (they are so cute!) are learning a lesson to behave responsibly while in the library. |
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wcody
Joined: Tue, Mar 18 2008, 9:49 am EDT Posts: 126 Location: Cranbury, NJ
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 11:32 am EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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Township of Cranbury - Advisory
Please be advised that the location of the Township Committee meeting tonight (April 21, 2008) has been changed. It will be held at 6:30pm in the Township Meeting Room instead of the Administrator's Office.
Cranbury Township
23-A North Main Street
Cranbury , New Jersey 08512
The above notice was mailed out this morning.
While the meeting is closed for the interview of the police chief, completely appropriate, and closed for the discussion on the purchase of the PNC building, the meeting is open for public comment afterwards.
I plan to be there for the public comments to give feedback on the purchasing the building and library. It would be great to get others to attend to give their opinion. Unfortunately, we would need to wait until the closed session is over and that exact time is not known.
While there are good reasons for buying the PNC building and having a stand-alone library, those reasons need to be weighed against the total cost. A volunteer group should be willing to put together an estimate on the total costs (we do not need to use taxpayer money to pay a consultant). Once the total costs and impact on taxes are known, there should be a public forum on the topic.
One point to add on this discussion, in addition to our library, as citizens of Middlesex County, we can use the library being built in close to Cranbury in Plainsboro.
Win Cody |
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Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 11:45 am EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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This letter was emailed to the Township Committee last week. It expresses my views only. Although I am an attorney, I do not represent anyone regarding the PNC building. Further, although my father is on the Library Board (its current President), it does not express his views. I do not know what position, if any, the Library Board has on this matter. ~Frank J. Brennan, III
April 17, 2008
Cranbury Township Committee
Township of Cranbury
23-A North Main Street
Cranbury, New Jersey 08512
Re: PNC Bank Building
Main Street, Cranbury
Dear Township Committee:
I understand the Mayor and others toured the PNC Bank Building recently, and note the special Committee Meeting and Agenda items for April 21, 2008.
I have several concerns about converting the PNC bank building for some public or quasi public use. The primary concern is that it takes a key commercial building in a small business district out of commercial use. This further shrinks our business district, which impacts the vibrancy of our downtown. It also takes the property off the tax rolls. The town has several other locations "bookmarked" for future public buildings adjacent to the school and the former Wright Tract which would not negatively impact the business district and would be much more suitable for public buildings.
Secondarily, if the PNC building were converted to a public use, the ability to expand the building or increase the parking capacity would be severely limited given the relative small size of the PNC parcel and the unavailability of any land for expansion adjacent to the PNC parcel.
Third, is the cost of acquiring and converting the PNC building to a new use. Given the asking price and what I believe to be the fair market value of the building, the acquisition costs would be significant. The cost of converting the building to a public use would also be quite substantial. I have toured the building on several occasions and, as you have probably discovered, it has a dysfunctional layout, contains numerous closets and small rooms, and has two (2) safes. The safes consume a lot of space, would not be readily useable in a public building, and would be costly to remove. Finally, the drive-up portico at the building does not easily transfer to any public use and costs would be incurred to demolish it.
An issue related to the conversion of this building is whether its useable space is consistent with its advertised space. I have reviewed the blueprints for the building, which were provided to me by PNC Bank, and have performed my own measurements of the building. These measurements show that the actual useable square footage of the main floor and second floor is significantly less than the total square footage advertised as part of the listing for this property. The listing, I believe, includes square footage for part, or all, of the basement. The basement in my view is not useable space given its low ceilings and the inability to easily access the basement from the first floor. Use of the second floor is also greatly restricted by the current layout of the staircase to that floor.
As to the April 21st special Township Committee meeting, I understand the need for a closed session on matters of this type, but also appreciate that there are significant issues involved which would greatly benefit from a public presentation and discussion. These issues include acquisition costs, renovation costs, the source of funding, and land use issues such as the impact that taking this parcel out of commercial use could have upon the Village Commercial District. The need for public discussion is further underscored by the other financial issues facing our town such as potential COAH obligations, loss of state aid and the Township’s existing debt load. Given all of this, the potential purchase of the PNC building deserves and requires public presentation, discussion and input.
Finally, it is important to keep in mind that the expenses of acquisition, renovation and other related costs are all discretionary. As a Town, we must distinguish between “wants” and “needs”. In my view, the acquisition of this building for a public purpose and all of the related costs qualifies as a “want”, not a “need”. With the uncertain future expenditures that this Town faces which are not discretionary, it would be prudent not to commit to further discretionary expenses.
When you have a minute, I would like to talk with you more about the above.
Thank you for your consideration.
Very truly yours,
Francis J. Brennan, III
c: Trishka Waterbury
P.S. There is talk in Town, at least that I heard recently, that I am not objective on this matter because my wife, Beth, and I expressed an interest in purchasing the PNC building. While we did have such an interest in the past, we decided many months ago not to pursue such a purchase. Thus, my motives are based on being a resident of Town and, along with Beth, owners of two other commercial properties in the business district. Given this, I am keenly concerned about the continued viability of our business district. |
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james Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 12:10 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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Actually, you raised a very valid point that I had not even considered. The property is a commercial ratable with an assessed value of 1.8 million. If the property is moved to a public one, not only are there increased operational costs, but a signifigant amount of tax revenue is off the books as a result. |
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Guest* Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 12:17 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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I am surprised by Mr. Brennan's being opposed to a library in the downtown area. This would bring a lot of people to the businesses as they patronize the library. Our downtown needs an anchor, instead of just New Hope type of shops. Wouldn't the parking in town be essential? Isn't keeping our downtown vibrant important to us so that we do not just become a bedroom community? |
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Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 1:43 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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I would like to know where our town will get the money to pay for the PNC bank? Will it be taken from the taxes we pay for preserving farm land in Cranbury? We already are in debt. Do we really want to add to it with another free standing library and/or parking lot? We don't even have a solution for COAH, approved an additional 1 million for the school, and our town budget went up this year. WoW! What is our taxes going to look like?!
I'm not sure why we are pushing for another library - I thought Cranbury was proud about how we are consolidating resources with other towns. What's wrong with using Plainsboro or West Windsors library? After all, the high school kids also have access to Princeton. I think we have plenty of educational resources around us.
The parking lot issue - Come on now - paying 1.4 mil for public parking that will be used for special events maybe 4 times a year - Way too much money. |
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Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 1:46 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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"A public library on Main Street would be wonderful. The current library is very busy with school children until 6 p.m. I would like a quiet reading area."
What are willing to pay for that quiet reading area? |
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Guest3 Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 1:55 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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One point that has not been brought up is the fact that the municipal library may be asked to leave the present location due to growing school population and the need for a multiple use space (school library that also serves as classrooms). Also, there is the worry about school safety as the library is open to the public. When the library was built we were about half the size we are now. Now as we approach 4000 residents in town and think that we may be over that soon, we need to plan for the future. |
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guest4 Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 2:12 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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Guest3 wrote: | One point that has not been brought up is the fact that the municipal library may be asked to leave the present location due to growing school population and the need for a multiple use space (school library that also serves as classrooms). Also, there is the worry about school safety as the library is open to the public. When the library was built we were about half the size we are now. Now as we approach 4000 residents in town and think that we may be over that soon, we need to plan for the future. |
I don't think school safety is an issue, because the door to the school is locked from the library side. Also, I think the librarians are watching closely for "strangers" who enter the library. (BTW, the librarians know me and my kids by name.)
There might have a need to expand the library in the future, but I don't see an urgent need now.
It seems the TC is in a hurry to discuss the matter related to the possible purchase of the PNC bank location. I don't think there is a need to do that in a hurry. The tax payers need to be well informed as to the reasons behind the urgent need to purchase the location. |
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James Guest
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Posted: Mon, Apr 21 2008, 2:25 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Special Township Committee Meeting on Monday, April 21, 2008 |
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I was talking with someone the other day about our taxes increasing and they said, "Well, we moved from WW so there is still room in Cranbury's tax structure." That seems to me to be the point many here are making in advocating for the PNC library. Instead of saying we need to keep taxes in check, people are saying well look at WW and we can increase taxes because we're not as bad off as WW is today. So let's buy the PNC Bank building.
To me that logic is flawed. Towns should be looking to make informed financial decisions and be looked at in a positive manner for keeping a low tax rate.
I haven't seen one arguement that justifies an expense of 1 million plus for this building. Would I like a stand alone library, sure. However, not when it means increasing taxes during a recession. With the cost of taxes increasing because of the revaluation and the overall cost of living expenses increasing I do not see justification to make people pay more in taxes today or for the town to be fiscally irresponsible and take on more debt. |
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