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Guest
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 Posted: Fri, Jun 3 2011, 8:20 am EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Guest wrote: | The proposal is that you are snowed in at Grandma's house the day after Christmas. You were planning to be there 48 hours not 5 days. How would one "make arrangements"
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It's not rocket science. You keep an eye on the weather and make arrangements with a neighbor or service before you go away during a winter trip. People do it all the time. Even in Cranbury now there are plenty of people who are responsible enough neighbors that they are doing this without the ordinance. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 3 2011, 8:27 am EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Which services shovel sidewalks? I know plenty who plow driveways, don't know any that shovel sidewalks. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 3 2011, 8:35 am EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | I love it. This kind of crap comes up every now and them from some stick in the mud who has lived in Cranbury for all of 5 minutes and thinks we need a new law because he has somehow been minorly inconvenienced. My advice... Knock it off. Get your lilly ass off the couch and go talk to your neighbor. Yes, actually talk to your neighbor. We don't need a law, we need common sense. If your neighbor doesn't shovel and you don't like it, talk to your neighbor. Don't go making a bunch of stupid new rules because you are afraid to talk to your neighbor. And just because other towns have stupid rules for stupid people doesn't mean we need stupid rules in Cranbury. Man up, Sally! Go talk to your neighbor! |
Actually, from the TC meeting last Monday those who are speaking out asking for it are long timers in town. Some longer residents than I am and I am over 40. The problem seems to be new comers. The old timers tend to shovel their walks. The new comers come in see some neighbors don't then suddenly realize their is no ordinance and then stop. It's why the developments where most new people live are the biggest issue. If the new comers (and some old timers) did shovel then there would be no reason to have a law on the books. It all stems from people not being neighborly. Instead of arguing for or against a law, why aren't people complaining that the law is because of people not doing the right thing in the first place? That's what has caused people to complain. Now, those opposed are those same ones who don't shovel today and want to justify their lack of being neighborly- I am away all winter so who cares about my neighbors, my neighbors don't shovel why should I, etc...People are trying to fight for the right to not to do the right thing and excuse themselves for not doing it. |
I don't know about your old versus new thesis. I would agree there are plenty of "old timers" who support the ordinance. But there are plenty of neighborly “new comers” who diligently shovel now and support it too.
I suspect you are correct that many of the opponents of the measure are people who aren’t doing the right thing without it, who want to justify or protect their right to prioritize their convenience or wallet over public safety, like those in Shadow Oaks who say “just walk in the street.” With all due respect to the earlier poster who said it would be a hardship for them because they don’t work much now and spend the winter in Florida, if you can afford to not work and maintain a place here and have extended stays in Florida, you can afford to pay a service if necessary to clear a sidewalk a few times a year. Personally I can’t afford a second place or extended stays anywhere. But I have paid a service to clear my sidewalk when I was gone at the same time as my neighbors. It’s a basic responsibility of home ownership and I can’t start thinking about two places before I can responsibly cover the maintenance responsibilities of the first.
To the poster who says this is all about complainers not talking to their neighbors, that’s just pure bull. There are plenty of people who have tried to appeal to their neighbors and I know people have politely tried to ask some of the worst offenders on Main Street to clear their sidewalks. That isn’t working. Those not doing it have no intention of doing it unless they are compelled to. Which is why almost every municipality has this law. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 3 2011, 8:37 am EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Guest wrote: | | Which services shovel sidewalks? I know plenty who plow driveways, don't know any that shovel sidewalks. |
In my experience most of the services that shovel driveways will do your sidewalks or frotn walkways for an extra fee. If yours doesn't try calling some others. I've had multiple people market this service to me. They usually use a truck plow for the driveway but their guys either have a blower in the flatbed of the truck or shovels and can do the sidewalks. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 3 2011, 9:17 am EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Inconsiderate neighbors and vocal whiners in Shallow Oaks? I don't believe it! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 3 2011, 11:20 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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I'm pretty good about shoveling my sidealk, unless one of my totally awesome neighbors beats me to it. So I'm not looking to get out of my responsibilities, as some of the comments above suggest. I don't see much need for this ordinance in my neighborhood, but I can see where in other parts of town, there may be a need.
If this ordinance is put forth, I suggest the following
1. Extend the timeframe to 48 hours. This will ensure enough time to shovel and for the most part will limit the penalties to those who did not intend to shovel.
2. Have public works shovel and bill the property owner. This will ensure that the goal of the ordinance is met (timely shoveling) and will result in money for Cranbury Public Works, as opposed to Plainsboro courts. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 3 2011, 11:55 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Does public works have the resources to shovel the sidewalks? And if it is understood that they are responsible for shoveling sidewalks when property owners don't, won't that open the Township to liability if someone gets hurt dodging unshoveled sidewalks? Anyone suing would go after both the property owners and Township arguing shared responsibility. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 4 2011, 6:49 am EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Guest wrote: | | Does public works have the resources to shovel the sidewalks? And if it is understood that they are responsible for shoveling sidewalks when property owners don't, won't that open the Township to liability if someone gets hurt dodging unshoveled sidewalks? Anyone suing would go after both the property owners and Township arguing shared responsibility. |
If people are too lazy to shovel their walks now won't they simply let PW do the work and pay the bill? Or wait and see what is cheaper PW or a private company?
If PW does it I say the fee should escalate. $75 first offense, 100 second and 150 third and more. The only exception I could see is if there is an elderly family say age 75 and over living in the home then perhaps the PW could do it for a nominal fee or neighbors would be encouraed to help out of wanting to help neighbors. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 4 2011, 4:55 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Guest wrote: | | Does public works have the resources to shovel the sidewalks? And if it is understood that they are responsible for shoveling sidewalks when property owners don't, won't that open the Township to liability if someone gets hurt dodging unshoveled sidewalks? Anyone suing would go after both the property owners and Township arguing shared responsibility. |
I agree when will the Public Works have time to shovel sidewalks all over town? This burden cannot and should not be put on the public works, they work hard enough.
Bottom line, be RESPONSIBLE for YOUR property, be RESPONSIBLE for YOURSELF. Teach your children how to do the RIGHT thing instead of dodging responsibility. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 4 2011, 5:20 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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In a nutshell this topic highlights everything wrong with the forum. Win asks for suggestions about a possible ordinance. Various people start making suggestions. Soon someone disagrees with a suggestion. This person is deemed irresponsible by an earlier poster. Next the neighborhood of a poster is trashed because of their alleged irresponsibility.
Some of you folks need years of therapy.
Here is an idea. Keep making suggestions. If someone disagrees with you or offers a suggestion you dislike let it go. This is to get a few ideas about how to craft a bill. The details matter in these things. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 4 2011, 5:24 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | The proposal is that you are snowed in at Grandma's house the day after Christmas. You were planning to be there 48 hours not 5 days. How would one "make arrangements"
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It's not rocket science. You keep an eye on the weather and make arrangements with a neighbor or service before you go away during a winter trip. People do it all the time. Even in Cranbury now there are plenty of people who are responsible enough neighbors that they are doing this without the ordinance. |
Actually, I did get snowed in this Christmas. Both neighbors were also out of town and the little old lady across the street is in her 80's. It may not be rocket science, but it was a real problem. Of course I realize that in your roll as ruler of time space and dimension such problems are trivial. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 4 2011, 5:33 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | The proposal is that you are snowed in at Grandma's house the day after Christmas. You were planning to be there 48 hours not 5 days. How would one "make arrangements"
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It's not rocket science. You keep an eye on the weather and make arrangements with a neighbor or service before you go away during a winter trip. People do it all the time. Even in Cranbury now there are plenty of people who are responsible enough neighbors that they are doing this without the ordinance. |
Actually, I did get snowed in this Christmas. Both neighbors were also out of town and the little old lady across the street is in her 80's. It may not be rocket science, but it was a real problem. Of course I realize that in your roll as ruler of time space and dimension such problems are trivial. |
Right and Cranbury is someone unique in the universe, so the problems every other Township's citizens manage to deal with are somehow insurmountable here. You really must be conceited. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 4 2011, 5:47 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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I really believe 90% of the residents are good natured and want to do what is right, but easily slip into the I don't do it if I don't have to mold.
So here is my suggestion.
Make the ordinance 48 or 72 hrs. By that time if the walk isn't shoveled it's not going to be and the person should be fined.
In the circumstance that someone is away like Christmas make the ordinance such that they have to show proof of being away. So long as there is proof then the person is exempt.
If you get repeat offenders who are away such as those with second homes you track it and make the ordinance such that after 3 violations there is no longer a fee waiver.
It should apply to all residents in town. There are no neighborhoods I am aware of where ice does not build up on roads or where walking in the road when there is ice is safer than any other part of town. People are not hit by multiple cars, they are hit by one usually that skids out of control and there are more turns in the developments then there are on Main St. which is my concern. I see adults driving in the middle of the road in my neighborhood and going much too fast on normal days.
I also don't think the police will be policing this unless neighbors call in and complain. They have other stuff to worry about. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 4 2011, 10:56 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Guest wrote: | I'm pretty good about shoveling my sidealk, unless one of my totally awesome neighbors beats me to it. So I'm not looking to get out of my responsibilities, as some of the comments above suggest. I don't see much need for this ordinance in my neighborhood, but I can see where in other parts of town, there may be a need.
If this ordinance is put forth, I suggest the following
1. Extend the timeframe to 48 hours. This will ensure enough time to shovel and for the most part will limit the penalties to those who did not intend to shovel.
2. Have public works shovel and bill the property owner. This will ensure that the goal of the ordinance is met (timely shoveling) and will result in money for Cranbury Public Works, as opposed to Plainsboro courts. |
I posted the above suggestions. Based on the constructive feedback my suggestions received, I' would amend the 2nd suggestion to have all actions start with a complaint from a resident to the Township. The Township could then choose to source it to a private company and add an administrative fee, or direct it to public works (for a substantial fee) if PW has the capacity. Either way, the township makes money and the non-shovelers pay more than they would had they hired a service.
Invariably, someone will disagree with my suggestions, and I'm OK with that. But for the sake of productivity, let's post comments as if we were sitting in a room with our neighbors. Thanks. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 4 2011, 11:18 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Are there any liability issues with a shoveled versus unshoveled sidewalk? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 4 2011, 11:20 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Sidewalk shoveling snow removal ordinance? |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | The proposal is that you are snowed in at Grandma's house the day after Christmas. You were planning to be there 48 hours not 5 days. How would one "make arrangements"
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It's not rocket science. You keep an eye on the weather and make arrangements with a neighbor or service before you go away during a winter trip. People do it all the time. Even in Cranbury now there are plenty of people who are responsible enough neighbors that they are doing this without the ordinance. |
Actually, I did get snowed in this Christmas. Both neighbors were also out of town and the little old lady across the street is in her 80's. It may not be rocket science, but it was a real problem. Of course I realize that in your roll as ruler of time space and dimension such problems are trivial. |
Right and Cranbury is someone unique in the universe, so the problems every other Township's citizens manage to deal with are somehow insurmountable here. You really must be conceited. |
Yes oh great one I must be conceited. |
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