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anon-ros2
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 Posted: Wed, Oct 6 2021, 11:06 am EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| Concerning seniors: Doesn't the state's Senior Freeze program reimburse lower-income seniors for the cost of property tax increases? I know that not everyone qualifies for that program, but my understanding is that essentially everyone who (in the literal sense) can't afford to pay a property tax increase is covered. |
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anon-7666
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 6 2021, 12:17 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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I love how we can justify things we want for ourselves, by saying what others can afford. This is why our state and DC are such a mess.
The Sr freeze requirements - you must have lived in Nj co to you sly prior to 2009 (so moving here in the last 11 years disqualifies you). You must be age 65 and make less than 92k before taxes and that is for single and married people. Once you account for taxes and living expenses it does not leave a lot of room.
So the tax increases will hit most seniors and retirees in town. It is especially rough now for many on fixed incomes when the cost of everything is increasing. Just look at how many more people are going to skeets. |
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anon-pp76
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 6 2021, 11:00 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| We have a tax increase? Show me where.... |
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anon-opr0
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 7 2021, 12:17 am EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| anon-7666 wrote: | I love how we can justify things we want for ourselves, by saying what others can afford. This is why our state and DC are such a mess.
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Everyone in this town and state and nation has benefitted from things paid for by taxes. At every single point in time those taxes were paid, there were taxpayers who couldn't afford them. When you were at your peak earnings, others were seniors on a fixed budget. By your definition, we should never have had any taxes ever because we should have to base our decisions on those least able to pay at any moment. And therefore we should have no roads, no schools, no police, no national defense, etc.
What's even worse than raising taxes to pay for current expenses is lowering them while not reducing, and often increasing, spending, as the has been done at the national level repeatedly in my lifetime. Deficits are the least honest, most morally bankrupt form of spending because they force the bill for our benefits on our future generations. |
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18 mil-79q2
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 7 2021, 10:24 am EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| 18 million is a big nut, even if it is supplemented by the state. Why do everything at once? We could do a few smaller projects one at a time an spread the cost out over time. Especially now when the cost of construction is through the roof! Fuel prices are up, groceries are up. Now just isn't the time for this. |
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guest 2-ppq0
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 7 2021, 11:09 am EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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The School might say that now is exactly the time to propose these renovations because they are "retiring" the debt for the new gym, so they would have new debt, or loan. We won't notice much of a difference. But since the new debt is more than a 2% increase the school needs to ask the residents to vote on this i.e. the referendum. The average increase in property taxes would "only" be $150.00.
Question: If the town votes down the referendum, will the school drop all renovations? In other words, would we have lower property taxes due to the paying of the old loan? School taxes represent a large percentage of our property tax bill - over 50%. I would just like to see the figures. |
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anon-7666
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 7 2021, 2:23 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| anon-opr0 wrote: | | anon-7666 wrote: | I love how we can justify things we want for ourselves, by saying what others can afford. This is why our state and DC are such a mess.
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Everyone in this town and state and nation has benefitted from things paid for by taxes. At every single point in time those taxes were paid, there were taxpayers who couldn't afford them. When you were at your peak earnings, others were seniors on a fixed budget. By your definition, we should never have had any taxes ever because we should have to base our decisions on those least able to pay at any moment. And therefore we should have no roads, no schools, no police, no national defense, etc.
What's even worse than raising taxes to pay for current expenses is lowering them while not reducing, and often increasing, spending, as the has been done at the national level repeatedly in my lifetime. Deficits are the least honest, most morally bankrupt form of spending because they force the bill for our benefits on our future generations. |
It is a big leap from no roads and no schools which are needs to a performing arts center which is a want.
There is a balance between what is needed and what is desired. No problem asking people to pay for a need. But I do think it behooves us to think of others when it comes to personal wants. |
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anon-qn09
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| Posted: Fri, Oct 8 2021, 3:35 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| anon-00q5 wrote: | | anon-4048 wrote: | What about the performing arts center and improvements associated with that? I could see the cafeteria and some of the other improvements. But it is fair to compare bike paths and performing arts center.
We’re a Blue Ribbon school today because of our staff and teachers. That doesn’t change if we don’t have a multimillion dollar arts center. And part of their argument is it is a room for the community. It was the same argument for the large group room which isn’t able to be used and the same argument for the library. |
Have there been significant advancements in cafeterias over the years? The "it's the same cafeteria as the '80s" seems like a poor justification for spending money unless there is some real benefit.
A PAC, on the other hand, might make sense for a town that emphasizes performing arts. Many middle schools have a decent theater set up for assemblies and performances. However, the sensible solution would be to simply upgrade the temporary spectator seating options in the old gym. For example...
https://www.sseteam.com/spectator-seating/ |
Actually, wasn't the cafeteriea built in the 1968 addition? |
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anon-opr0
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| Posted: Fri, Oct 8 2021, 8:25 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| anon-7666 wrote: | | anon-opr0 wrote: | | anon-7666 wrote: | I love how we can justify things we want for ourselves, by saying what others can afford. This is why our state and DC are such a mess.
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Everyone in this town and state and nation has benefitted from things paid for by taxes. At every single point in time those taxes were paid, there were taxpayers who couldn't afford them. When you were at your peak earnings, others were seniors on a fixed budget. By your definition, we should never have had any taxes ever because we should have to base our decisions on those least able to pay at any moment. And therefore we should have no roads, no schools, no police, no national defense, etc.
What's even worse than raising taxes to pay for current expenses is lowering them while not reducing, and often increasing, spending, as the has been done at the national level repeatedly in my lifetime. Deficits are the least honest, most morally bankrupt form of spending because they force the bill for our benefits on our future generations. |
It is a big leap from no roads and no schools which are needs to a performing arts center which is a want.
There is a balance between what is needed and what is desired. No problem asking people to pay for a need. But I do think it behooves us to think of others when it comes to personal wants. |
So who decides what is a need and what is a want then, since, again, by this definition we should never, ever invest a dime in any want. No parks, no public museums or zoos. As a taxpayer I think we spend far too much on defense than is necessary. Someone else thinks education spending is unnecessary, or public television or the arts funding, or the billions we spend on farm subsidies or oil exploration or police, etc. Everyone will have a different opinion. |
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Wants and needs-s00s
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| Posted: Sat, Oct 9 2021, 10:49 am EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| It's not necessarily about wants and needs. I'm looking at it as hey, we just paid off our credit card. Let's go buy alot of stuff and charge it to the card. Why not take some time, use the savings of the paid off debt and build a surplus. Then go for these big projects. That is the fiscal thing to do. Stop with the tax and spend mentality. |
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anon-pp76
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| Posted: Sat, Oct 9 2021, 12:04 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| anon-opr0 wrote: | | anon-7666 wrote: | | anon-opr0 wrote: | | anon-7666 wrote: | I love how we can justify things we want for ourselves, by saying what others can afford. This is why our state and DC are such a mess.
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Everyone in this town and state and nation has benefitted from things paid for by taxes. At every single point in time those taxes were paid, there were taxpayers who couldn't afford them. When you were at your peak earnings, others were seniors on a fixed budget. By your definition, we should never have had any taxes ever because we should have to base our decisions on those least able to pay at any moment. And therefore we should have no roads, no schools, no police, no national defense, etc.
What's even worse than raising taxes to pay for current expenses is lowering them while not reducing, and often increasing, spending, as the has been done at the national level repeatedly in my lifetime. Deficits are the least honest, most morally bankrupt form of spending because they force the bill for our benefits on our future generations. |
It is a big leap from no roads and no schools which are needs to a performing arts center which is a want.
There is a balance between what is needed and what is desired. No problem asking people to pay for a need. But I do think it behooves us to think of others when it comes to personal wants. |
So who decides what is a need and what is a want then, since, again, by this definition we should never, ever invest a dime in any want. No parks, no public museums or zoos. As a taxpayer I think we spend far too much on defense than is necessary. Someone else thinks education spending is unnecessary, or public television or the arts funding, or the billions we spend on farm subsidies or oil exploration or police, etc. Everyone will have a different opinion. |
You like using streets, Medicare, Social Security, pay for Police? Just checking. |
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anon-pp76
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| Posted: Sat, Oct 9 2021, 12:04 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| Wants and needs-s00s wrote: | | It's not necessarily about wants and needs. I'm looking at it as hey, we just paid off our credit card. Let's go buy alot of stuff and charge it to the card. Why not take some time, use the savings of the paid off debt and build a surplus. Then go for these big projects. That is the fiscal thing to do. Stop with the tax and spend mentality. |
We had and still have a surplus, no? For years, no? |
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anon-400s
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| Posted: Sat, Oct 9 2021, 12:45 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| This is school not town. The surplus is a municipal surplus. |
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anon-opr0
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| Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2021, 7:07 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| anon-pp76 wrote: | | anon-opr0 wrote: | | anon-7666 wrote: | | anon-opr0 wrote: | | anon-7666 wrote: | I love how we can justify things we want for ourselves, by saying what others can afford. This is why our state and DC are such a mess.
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Everyone in this town and state and nation has benefitted from things paid for by taxes. At every single point in time those taxes were paid, there were taxpayers who couldn't afford them. When you were at your peak earnings, others were seniors on a fixed budget. By your definition, we should never have had any taxes ever because we should have to base our decisions on those least able to pay at any moment. And therefore we should have no roads, no schools, no police, no national defense, etc.
What's even worse than raising taxes to pay for current expenses is lowering them while not reducing, and often increasing, spending, as the has been done at the national level repeatedly in my lifetime. Deficits are the least honest, most morally bankrupt form of spending because they force the bill for our benefits on our future generations. |
It is a big leap from no roads and no schools which are needs to a performing arts center which is a want.
There is a balance between what is needed and what is desired. No problem asking people to pay for a need. But I do think it behooves us to think of others when it comes to personal wants. |
So who decides what is a need and what is a want then, since, again, by this definition we should never, ever invest a dime in any want. No parks, no public museums or zoos. As a taxpayer I think we spend far too much on defense than is necessary. Someone else thinks education spending is unnecessary, or public television or the arts funding, or the billions we spend on farm subsidies or oil exploration or police, etc. Everyone will have a different opinion. |
You like using streets, Medicare, Social Security, pay for Police? Just checking. |
More examples of the same point -- everything is a want or a need to someone. And everyone will have a different opinion. Some streets get maintained, others don't, and we certainly don't all benefit from them equally. Amazon's trucks abuse them more than most of us, yet they proportionately pay less taxes than most of us.Many haven't seen a dime in Social Security and Medicare. Why should the young subsidize the old who are getting far more in payouts than they contributed while the system is on track to go bankrupt before they benefit despite their contributions? Some would rather see less funding to police, and more to community organizations. Some the opposite.
Every one of these have been paid with taxes whether the individuals wanted their taxes to go to them or not, whether they could afford those taxes or not, whether they had any likelihood of personally benefitting or not. That's how it works. If we're going to start saying that everyone has an obligation to oppose any taxes that those least able to pay can afford, there needs to be a whole lot of changes on a local, state and national level beyond this school bond.
"Tax and spend" is a hallow insult when "Debt and spend" is the greater evil. If the current senior generation doesn't want any new taxes, let's at least level the playing field and make them pay off the debt they accumulated and enjoyed the benefit of when they were at their peak earnings. |
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anon-00q5
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| Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2021, 10:50 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| Some taxes return more value than others. We get good value for our tax dollars in this town, and by NJ standards, our taxes are low. As long as we let the people decide if we should use tax money for these projects, there's nothing wrong with bringing forward ideas. If that's what the townspeople want to do, then we will do it. If they don't, we won't. That's how it is supposed to work. |
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Anon 009-s288
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| Posted: Mon, Oct 11 2021, 8:26 am EDT Post subject: Re: Taxes |
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| anon-00q5 wrote: | | Some taxes return more value than others. We get good value for our tax dollars in this town, and by NJ standards, our taxes are low. As long as we let the people decide if we should use tax money for these projects, there's nothing wrong with bringing forward ideas. If that's what the townspeople want to do, then we will do it. If they don't, we won't. That's how it is supposed to work. |
I and many other residents agree, we moved here for the school district. Using our tax dollars to make improvements is a sound investment. Not investing in our school will have serious consequences. |
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