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Guest
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 Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2010, 4:19 pm EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| One big fact that is being missed here is that Cranburians do not support local business. Why do you think the hardware store, the deli, the pharmacy, the gift store, dandelion, Hannah&M, etc., and the relatively new stores (Patina, kids) that just closed did not make it here in town? Home Depot, et.al, is "cheaper", and that is the reality of our interaction with businesses in town. own up to it. it's not parking, or the township's rules and regulations, or the business assoc. i will be more than happy to get a new bike shop since I am a bikey, and will definately patronize it, but let's take a guess on long they will last. businesses will always keep coming, and trying, but they leave just as fast. and one more comment, i absolutely hate,hate the idea of a brand new house made to look old, like in colonial williamsburg, in the middle of our authentic national historic district. it is just so fake. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2010, 4:27 pm EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| Guest wrote: | | One big fact that is being missed here is that Cranburians do not support local business. Why do you think the hardware store, the deli, the pharmacy, the gift store, dandelion, Hannah&M, etc., and the relatively new stores (Patina, kids) that just closed did not make it here in town? Home Depot, et.al, is "cheaper", and that is the reality of our interaction with businesses in town. own up to it. it's not parking, or the township's rules and regulations, or the business assoc. i will be more than happy to get a new bike shop since I am a bikey, and will definately patronize it, but let's take a guess on long they will last. businesses will always keep coming, and trying, but they leave just as fast. and one more comment, i absolutely hate,hate the idea of a brand new house made to look old, like in colonial williamsburg, in the middle of our authentic national historic district. it is just so fake. |
Bingo |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2010, 4:39 pm EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| Guest wrote: | | One big fact that is being missed here is that Cranburians do not support local business. Why do you think the hardware store, the deli, the pharmacy, the gift store, dandelion, Hannah&M, etc., and the relatively new stores (Patina, kids) that just closed did not make it here in town? Home Depot, et.al, is "cheaper", and that is the reality of our interaction with businesses in town. own up to it. it's not parking, or the township's rules and regulations, or the business assoc. i will be more than happy to get a new bike shop since I am a bikey, and will definately patronize it, but let's take a guess on long they will last. businesses will always keep coming, and trying, but they leave just as fast. and one more comment, i absolutely hate,hate the idea of a brand new house made to look old, like in colonial williamsburg, in the middle of our authentic national historic district. it is just so fake. |
I will have to disagree. There are many examples of new buildings made to look old that are very nice. I'm sure that the HPAC people will be all over this project regarding authenticity. Getting rid of the parking lot will visually improve Main Street. Check out what the bank property used to look like. There is a pic of it in Town Hall.
If parking becomes scarce it means that the downtown is thriving and that is good. New businesses are not forced to have parking ex. Blue Rooster,Gil and Berts. Why would they put it in if they are not forced to. Its obviously not needed. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2010, 5:41 pm EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| guest575 wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | I just hope the people living in the immediate area aren't like the rest of the town and try and stop this (NIMBY). Maybe they can't stop it do to the zoning but I am sure they will try even though there is currently a commercial property there. Maybe they will be of the same mindset as the people in Cranbury Manor trying to keep any commercial business off of Route 130. |
There is nothing anyone can do to stop it if they wanted to do it. Zoning allows for it and there are no variances required. The use of the property is continued as was the case prior. |
I saw in the Press the quote above that no variances are required. Not sure if this refers to Use Variances (needed if the proposed use is not permitted in the zone) or Bulk Variances (deals with setsbacks, driveway width, number of parking places etc). I find it hard to believe that no bulk variances are needed, and it may well be that use variances are needed. There will now be a house, offices, change in site plan, retail bike shop etc. However, whether they need variances or what type of variances they need, I believe they must get Planning Board Approval for a new site plan which will enompasses all variances, bulk and use, along with engineering, parking, drainage, etc. This will allow input from any interested party, including the Town (who may want to see public parking continued) or the library folks who may want.... For me, I welcome a new business or two in town. |
The use is a permitted use for all of the above as two homes stood there prior. Sweetwater is an office as was PNC and a bike shop is a permitted use so no variance.
The setbacks can all be met and are in accordance. Mr. Kerht sits on the PB. The residents can offer input, but there is nothing that allows the town to say no legally. That does not mean the business is exempt from adhering to codes regarding drainage etc... That is different than a variance. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2010, 6:32 pm EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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Has anyone seen the actual site plan or drawings for what is proposed?
carving out one third of the lot, which is what it would be if they leave the drive through there as mentioned, seems like it will be narrow for a home relative to the lots around it, especially if the original site was two homes which likely were split roughly equally. Would not changing the dimensions of the lot when they split it back into two require some zoning approval?
I like the idea of putting a home back, but I home they don't make it awakwardly narrow and I hope they allow it to have a nice deep yard with rear parking off the street behind the lot and not have parking behind it. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2010, 7:00 pm EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| The drive through is being removed, it is not staying. |
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| Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2010, 9:19 pm EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| just to follow-up, i do know what was there before the ugly red brick building. when they tore down a very beautiful and stately home and a truly historic bank building to put up the (pnc) bank building that we have now, well that was a very sorry day in our history. and oh yea, i'm sure our hpac will have alot to say about the new house, but in the end they will have to give in and let whatever happens happen. pretty much if you own it you can do whatever you want by crying that there's not enough money in the budget. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2010, 11:35 pm EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| Guest wrote: | | just to follow-up, i do know what was there before the ugly red brick building. when they tore down a very beautiful and stately home and a truly historic bank building to put up the (pnc) bank building that we have now, well that was a very sorry day in our history. and oh yea, i'm sure our hpac will have alot to say about the new house, but in the end they will have to give in and let whatever happens happen. pretty much if you own it you can do whatever you want by crying that there's not enough money in the budget. |
Are there any pictures of the house that was there before?
Based on the master plan zoning doc available at our Township website it looks like the house's lot is small, less than half the depth of the current parking lot. It would be a shame if they build a new house there and only have a tiny lot. Main Street could use with more houses with larger, deep lots, like those just South of Evans. Presumably making the residential lot go full depth though might be a zoing variance which they will likely want to avoid. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010, 7:17 am EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| There were two houses torn down. One house will go up and it will take over the drive way. One smaller driveway will be there as opposed to the larger driveway there today. If you look at the property you can see that a rather sizeable house could be built. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010, 7:32 am EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| There are many pictures of the house that was demolished for the parking lot. An easy resource is the two volume set of pictures "Images of America - Cranbury" complied by Peggy and Frank Brennan. If you are interested in town history they are great to have. The Gristmillers House might have one, maybe the library, but you can buy them at Barnes&Noble. Anyway, bank and house pictures are on p.17, 74, 76 in Vol.I, and p.31, 85 in Vol.II. |
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| Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010, 8:23 am EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| Guest wrote: | | There are many pictures of the house that was demolished for the parking lot. An easy resource is the two volume set of pictures "Images of America - Cranbury" complied by Peggy and Frank Brennan. If you are interested in town history they are great to have. The Gristmillers House might have one, maybe the library, but you can buy them at Barnes&Noble. Anyway, bank and house pictures are on p.17, 74, 76 in Vol.I, and p.31, 85 in Vol.II. |
Thanks for the page referneces! I have these books and that really helped.
It is a shame to see what was there before versus the parking lot now. Reminds me of the lyrics to a couple songs.
Are there any surviving plans for the house that was destroyed? |
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| Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010, 9:31 am EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| Maybe Ginny Swanagan at the History Center would know if there is any more information about that particular house. Again, for me, I would rather see the area empty and green with park benches rather than have some half baked house built. |
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| Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010, 9:44 am EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| There was also a house on the Maplewood side of the property. The maplewood streetscape is particularly jaring with the current jarring parking lot. Alan Kehrt is correct. This is a very good outcome for that property. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010, 10:02 am EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| just one more comment and i'll stop. A few years back there was talk of tearing down the building where the princeton ballet is now and putting up a new house, because people thought it was old and ugly and didn't belong in the streetscape. i remember telling my friend on the twp.committee to realize that the building represented the time period when a car dealership came to cranbury, and that is an historical event. thankfully the building was spared. (it would be nice if the ballet took care of the front and painted it) people now think that the street scape would look better if the bank area is filled in, and an argument can be made that the building would represent the current time period, and towns do evolve over time. but it is right smack in the middle of a designated historic treasure. could it ruin our designation? probably not, but whatever they build (and it will be cheap) will stick out like a sore thumb. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010, 10:26 am EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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| Guest wrote: | | just one more comment and i'll stop. A few years back there was talk of tearing down the building where the princeton ballet is now and putting up a new house, because people thought it was old and ugly and didn't belong in the streetscape. i remember telling my friend on the twp.committee to realize that the building represented the time period when a car dealership came to cranbury, and that is an historical event. thankfully the building was spared. (it would be nice if the ballet took care of the front and painted it) people now think that the street scape would look better if the bank area is filled in, and an argument can be made that the building would represent the current time period, and towns do evolve over time. but it is right smack in the middle of a designated historic treasure. could it ruin our designation? probably not, but whatever they build (and it will be cheap) will stick out like a sore thumb. |
I could not disagree more. Right now the lot sticks out and makes no sense to me. It does not fit within the look of downtown. If they build a home according to the period then it will improve the look of Main St in my view. The homes should never have been allowed to be torn down.
The other thing in response to the poster about plans. Unfortunately, it is unlikely that there were plans for those homes. Builders often had their own notebooks where they wrote down changes, cuts, etc... I have seen some from other towns and it is really quite neat. They would build one home and make notes, build a second and make further notes, etc.... |
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guest575
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| Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010, 10:33 am EST Post subject: Re: Changes eyed for PNC site |
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Having a new house built in the current parking lot will certainly fill a void that probably never should have been created. The challenge for our Town, HPC and the Planning Board, will be to ensure that the new house harmonizes with the streetscape. A good architect with a good builder and good oversight from the Town can make that happen. Unfortunately, even with HPC oversight there has been new construction that just did not work. It simply is not easy. Other times, such as the construction of the new firehouse, it has worked well.
The prior posts demonstrate that this location is a key property for the Town, that includes not only the existing building but also any new construction. HPC and Planning Board meetings are open to the public. In a constructive, positive way, we must, as a Village, participate in the approval process to ensure that this key spot is developed smartly in a style and manner that will stand the test of time. |
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