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anon-np42
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 Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 9:59 am EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-n485 wrote: | I do not understand those that question the process of lowering / establishing these speed limits.
In my opinion, whether there was or was not a problem with accidents on these roads, the lowering of speed limits should reduce accidents in the future. Having to drive 35 for a mile when we used to be able to drive 50 is not terrible and will help me avoid hitting the deer out there.
For those who are upset at the lower speed limits maybe try leaving the house two minutes earlier to make up your travel time. I cannot believe some posters here are this upset over this. Maybe they are just trolling here because they have nothing better to do.
I do not believe the town, county, engineers, TC, and police chief all conspired to make these changes. What benefit is there to any or all of them?
Before you say ticket revenue, my understanding is all ticket money goes to Plainsboro and we do not get any of it. |
Your assumption is wrong. Lower speed limits do not always lead to safer conditions. If they did, you'd see lower speed limits everywhere whereas the trend in many places that are not densely residential has been to increase speeds. Don't you recall when all highways were 55 MPH when most are now 65 MPH and some are 70 MPH? Do you think they increased the speed to cause more accidents? The reason NJ State Law defaults to 50 MPH for all roads that are not densely residential is precisely because they involved traffic experts and understood that setting the speed limits too low causes more problems than it solves. That's why there is supposed to be a process involved before lowering it to study if it's really necessary. Have you not seen or experienced all the tailgating and passing that happens on Old Trenton now since they lowered the speed limit there?
It sounds like the Township short-changed this process in the rush to accommodate a handful of residents. If not, they would not have obscured the process by declining to share it or data publicly, either on their website, in their meeting minutes or here, since they have chosen to post on this topic and specifically declined to do so.
It is interesting that they rushed to change laws to accommodate a few neighbors despite no hard evidence of a problem and no real effort to first solve the problem with enforcement instead of law changes. Yet we continue to have slip and fall accidents throughout the Township every year do to the refusal to enforce requiring people to clear their sidewalks of snow despite that being a best practice in municipalities throughout the region. The only logic to not enforcing snow removal is to keep government minimalist and not over-regulate activity. But you can't use that as a reason then artificially reduce the speed below was is logical on the rural road for the sole purpose of getting a small volume of cars to go 5-10 minutes slower passed a dozen or so homes. |
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anon-464r
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 10:23 am EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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The county owns the road. The Town can't do anything without county ok. You seem to know a lot so should understand that. It would be like me painting my neighbor's house. I could do it, but would create a lot of issues if I did not have their ok.
What your asking for could be pages and you seem the type that would not be happy.
The town made everything available. It's not their fault you did not go to the meeting. |
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anon-np42
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 10:52 am EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-464r wrote: | The county owns the road. The Town can't do anything without county ok. You seem to know a lot so should understand that. It would be like me painting my neighbor's house. I could do it, but would create a lot of issues if I did not have their ok.
What your asking for could be pages and you seem the type that would not be happy.
The town made everything available. It's not their fault you did not go to the meeting. |
The town has not made everything available. No need to lie to try and force your point.
We can go round and round all day long. The small group that wanted this will continue to try and distract and justify while evading the simple solution of supplying the data and a description of the methods. If the process was reasonable and if the data justified the actions, there would be no need for all this. The fact that the data and methods remain hidden speaks to the lack of confidence there is in it standing up to scrutiny. They know that there were few tickets, few if any accidents and they know they didn't use the appropriate methods or the existing Township expert to do this. So its better to hide the facts and just keep making excuses. |
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didyouask?-0542
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 11:08 am EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-np42 --Have you asked for the data/study from town hall? I agree with an earlier sentiment in this thread re: anonymous requests on an unofficial forum (meaning there is no obligation that a township official respond). I have little interest in the issue - but it seems that an information request or question posed at a committee meeting would clear this up. |
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anon-ppq7
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 11:16 am EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| Good point. This forum is not an official place to work out Cranbury's problems. |
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anon-7499
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 11:40 am EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-np42 wrote: | | anon-464r wrote: | The county owns the road. The Town can't do anything without county ok. You seem to know a lot so should understand that. It would be like me painting my neighbor's house. I could do it, but would create a lot of issues if I did not have their ok.
What your asking for could be pages and you seem the type that would not be happy.
The town made everything available. It's not their fault you did not go to the meeting. |
The town has not made everything available. No need to lie to try and force your point.
We can go round and round all day long. The small group that wanted this will continue to try and distract and justify while evading the simple solution of supplying the data and a description of the methods. If the process was reasonable and if the data justified the actions, there would be no need for all this. The fact that the data and methods remain hidden speaks to the lack of confidence there is in it standing up to scrutiny. They know that there were few tickets, few if any accidents and they know they didn't use the appropriate methods or the existing Township expert to do this. So its better to hide the facts and just keep making excuses. |
Your the only one trying to mislead and lie about things. The county owns the road. The town made everyone available at a meeting and the Mayor posted here.
I am sure your attitude is the reason no one is responding to you. You have accused people of being unethical and have disregarded facts. Page 10 of the meeting notes from June 22 states, "Mr. Tanner confirmed approval was received from the County to change the speed limit on Cranbury Neck Rd." So county approval and review was required.
Later on, " Mr. Tanner explained Cranbury Neck Rd has no county ordinance, and the county was in agreement with following statutory limits." In this case 35.
Earlier, the notes state, " Mr.Tanner explained the process of determine the various limits. " this is all on tape you can get.
It seems everything is available if you ask Town Hall. |
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anon-np42
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 2:11 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| didyouask?-0542 wrote: | | anon-np42 --Have you asked for the data/study from town hall? I agree with an earlier sentiment in this thread re: anonymous requests on an unofficial forum (meaning there is no obligation that a township official respond). I have little interest in the issue - but it seems that an information request or question posed at a committee meeting would clear this up. |
Yep. They just referred to the minutes which detail neither. |
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anon-np42
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 2:17 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-ppq7 wrote: | | Good point. This forum is not an official place to work out Cranbury's problems. |
It's not about this forum. Jay Taylor is the one who decided to address the issue here, as have other TC members on other issues in the past. I and others here have consisted said there are numerous ways they could provide the information to the public. They could put in on the Township website. They could have detailed it in the minutes of the meeting. The could make copies available for pick-up at Town Hall. It's not hard. But none of those things have been done. And the minutes conspicuously leave out all the details.
It's very simple: How many tickets a year have been issued for speeding on Cranbury Neck in the 25 MPH zone? How many accidents have been reported over the last period of years, 5, 10, take your pick. Did they use the sensors on the ground to record vehicle speed for 100% of traffic over a period of at least a week? And why did they not include the township traffic consultant in the process? If everything was done above board, there should be absolutely no problems with any of those answers and therefore nothing to worry about. Further, they made the point here and in the meeting that issuing tickets has been ineffective. So disclosing the number of tickets is directly germane to their argument. As it stands now is the equivalent to going into court and testifying there is irrefutable evidence that the defendant is guilty then refusing to disclose what any of it is. |
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anon-np42
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 2:24 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-7499 wrote: | | anon-np42 wrote: | | anon-464r wrote: | The county owns the road. The Town can't do anything without county ok. You seem to know a lot so should understand that. It would be like me painting my neighbor's house. I could do it, but would create a lot of issues if I did not have their ok.
What your asking for could be pages and you seem the type that would not be happy.
The town made everything available. It's not their fault you did not go to the meeting. |
The town has not made everything available. No need to lie to try and force your point.
We can go round and round all day long. The small group that wanted this will continue to try and distract and justify while evading the simple solution of supplying the data and a description of the methods. If the process was reasonable and if the data justified the actions, there would be no need for all this. The fact that the data and methods remain hidden speaks to the lack of confidence there is in it standing up to scrutiny. They know that there were few tickets, few if any accidents and they know they didn't use the appropriate methods or the existing Township expert to do this. So its better to hide the facts and just keep making excuses. |
Your the only one trying to mislead and lie about things. The county owns the road. The town made everyone available at a meeting and the Mayor posted here.
I am sure your attitude is the reason no one is responding to you. You have accused people of being unethical and have disregarded facts. Page 10 of the meeting notes from June 22 states, "Mr. Tanner confirmed approval was received from the County to change the speed limit on Cranbury Neck Rd." So county approval and review was required.
Later on, " Mr. Tanner explained Cranbury Neck Rd has no county ordinance, and the county was in agreement with following statutory limits." In this case 35.
Earlier, the notes state, " Mr.Tanner explained the process of determine the various limits. " this is all on tape you can get.
It seems everything is available if you ask Town Hall. |
The record here is free for anyone to review. No one said it wasn't a county road. But as the record shows, this was a Township-led process. They are the ones that did the undisclosed "study" and requested the change. The County was not involved in the "study" nor did they initiate the change. So it remains you who are the only one to misled since you have falsely stated that the Township has made everything available. They have not, as a point of fact.
As you note in the minutes, they decline to detail the mythology of their study, the data resulting from the study, the reason to not using the township's existing traffic expert or to provide the underlying data on how many tickets were issued. |
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anon-ppq7
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 4:19 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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The point is that this forum is just that...you can vent, express your opinion, exchange views. But in the end, it is not where business gets done, and it is not the formal way information is disseminated. Apparently, this issue is important to you. I would go the official route to get the information that you want.
Some Township Committee members may decide to give out information here, but again it is not the official way to discuss or conduct township business.
Personally, I would rather the Township Committee not use this forum at all. It is like giving the squeaky wheel a megaphone. |
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anon-np42
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 4:31 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-ppq7 wrote: | The point is that this forum is just that...you can vent, express your opinion, exchange views. But in the end, it is not where business gets done, and it is not the formal way information is disseminated. Apparently, this issue is important to you. I would go the official route to get the information that you want.
Some Township Committee members may decide to give out information here, but again it is not the official way to discuss or conduct township business.
Personally, I would rather the Township Committee not use this forum at all. It is like giving the squeaky wheel a megaphone. |
But since they are not providing all this information in any alternative way, and they are using this forum to express their justification for the decision without sharing the facts, and since some others are using it to support the decision, again absent providing the facts, it seems pretty reasonable to counter that by calling out that they haven't made the facts available to the public and therefore the decision cannot be properly vetted by the public. |
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anon-n560
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 5:17 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-np42 wrote: | | anon-ppq7 wrote: | The point is that this forum is just that...you can vent, express your opinion, exchange views. But in the end, it is not where business gets done, and it is not the formal way information is disseminated. Apparently, this issue is important to you. I would go the official route to get the information that you want.
Some Township Committee members may decide to give out information here, but again it is not the official way to discuss or conduct township business.
Personally, I would rather the Township Committee not use this forum at all. It is like giving the squeaky wheel a megaphone. |
But since they are not providing all this information in any alternative way, and they are using this forum to express their justification for the decision without sharing the facts, and since some others are using it to support the decision, again absent providing the facts, it seems pretty reasonable to counter that by calling out that they haven't made the facts available to the public and therefore the decision cannot be properly vetted by the public. |
But they did. They had a public meeting where the engineer presented the process and you could ask any question at all. You still can. You did not go and now you want the answers posted here. |
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anon-np42
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 6:10 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-n560 wrote: | | anon-np42 wrote: | | anon-ppq7 wrote: | The point is that this forum is just that...you can vent, express your opinion, exchange views. But in the end, it is not where business gets done, and it is not the formal way information is disseminated. Apparently, this issue is important to you. I would go the official route to get the information that you want.
Some Township Committee members may decide to give out information here, but again it is not the official way to discuss or conduct township business.
Personally, I would rather the Township Committee not use this forum at all. It is like giving the squeaky wheel a megaphone. |
But since they are not providing all this information in any alternative way, and they are using this forum to express their justification for the decision without sharing the facts, and since some others are using it to support the decision, again absent providing the facts, it seems pretty reasonable to counter that by calling out that they haven't made the facts available to the public and therefore the decision cannot be properly vetted by the public. |
But they did. They had a public meeting where the engineer presented the process and you could ask any question at all. You still can. You did not go and now you want the answers posted here. |
Of course I do. As someone else posted much earlier in this topic, democracy to a meeting. Just because not everyone can make that meeting doesn't mean their right to public information ends. And it remains an open question how much detail they provided in the meeting. They did not include any of those details in the minutes and I haven't spoken to anyone in town who can answer the questions posted here so far, including someone who says they were at the meeting. Were you there? If so, you should be able to answer the questions. If not, then you have no idea how much detail they provided.
You keep coming up with the same excuses. Wouldn't it be easier for someone to just honor the public process and provide access to this public information in some form accessible to the public? |
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anon-4p4p
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 6:46 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| Just call town hall. It's much easier than making accusations and arguing. if you don't like the response go to a meeting. |
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anon-np42
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015, 11:24 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| anon-4p4p wrote: | | Just call town hall. It's much easier than making accusations and arguing. if you don't like the response go to a meeting. |
They don't have it.
Why not just answer simple questions instead of making excuses? |
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anon-8876
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 14 2015, 12:31 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Speed limits |
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| To all who read this Forum. It would be best for the Community and this Forum if all Posts from NP-42 were ignored. Do not respond to the illogical persistently discontented tantrums that this NP-42 places on this site. Thank You |
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