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[quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"][quote="guest 3"]Anyone who has followed this issue from the beginning would know that this issue is not just about buses. The real issue is that the school administration is making major decisions without doing the proper research. In order to save face, the administration has flip-flopped on the reason for changing the stops, first it was to save time and money, and lastly for safety reasons. Regardless of the real reason, they continue scramble to find facts to justify their most recent position. And that my friends is the real problem.....it's not a "bus"problem, it's and administration problem. Keep digging, I am sure you will find more than meets the eye with many issues........[/quote] It sounds so movie like. A conspiracy you infer ? What is the reason? Money, power, a pay off? Who is controlling the board? The Mafia? There are many questions that need to be answered, LOL I think you need to remember that this is just a bus stop change and not the end of the world. Little Johnny and little suzie will get to school just fine. If you cannot bear to stand on OTR waiting for the bus then drive like everyone else. Boo Hoo that you must walk 50 extra feet in the morning, Boo Hoo. Many people don't get busing and always have to walk or drive their children.[/quote] Not implying a conspiracy. Again the issue is not just about changing a bus stop/route. Clearly you haven't dealt with the administration directly or attended a board meeting on any matter. If you had you would be more informed rather than just posting opinions on a matter you don't know anything about. Stop implying parents don't want to walk an extra 50ft, that is not the issue AT ALL. Get the details then make an informed post.[/quote] You keep saying that but you realize that makes no sense, right? You keep saying the issue is NOT about the bus stop but about "dealing with the administration" and the way it makes unilateral decisions and communicates. But of course it is about the bus stop. Otherwise you are suggesting that all this fuss and showing up in force at the school board meeting and the letters to the paper, etc. is nothing more than the protest the principle of their decision and not the result. That's BS. The letter, the speakers at the meeting, etc. all were specifically interested in changing the bus route back, not just in complaining about how the school went about the decision. So those of us not agreeing with you are not simply "uninformed" as you would like to believe. We simply aren't falling for your logic that this isn't about the actual bus stop. Of course it is. Whether the school acted poorly or not, the end result is some people want the route reverted and some people don’t see why it should be.[/quote] "uninformed" because your only source of information on this matter is this blog and the Cranbury Press. I never said you had to agree with the parent's position however, you shouldn't imply they are whining and complaining about walking an extra 50ft. Their position is based on far many more facts and data then what has been posted here or in the Cranbury Press.[/quote]
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Guest
Posted: Mon, Oct 18 2010, 6:27 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
Quote:
I say, great.
Because that's what we pay and sacrifice for. We spend years working harder in school than many of our peers, paying for and working through college while staying up all night studying instead of partying, working our way up the ladder at work through hard work then consuming 15-18 hours a week of our life commuting out to our remote suburb homes while putting in long hours at work and always being on call and putting our money into living here instead of other things all specifically so that we can live in a quiet, safe, quaint little town with great schools where you know your neighbors and your kids know all their classmates.
If you were trying to imply there is anything wrong with that, you failed. I can’t speak for others, but I’ve “earned” this town. I grew up in a barely working class home in a marginal neighborhood with lousy schools and had to pick a state college I could afford and pay my way despite being qualified for other schools. I made choices, I made sacrifices and I worked hard to be able to afford living here. It’s not like I drive around in a fancy car or shuttle between here and my summer home. I prioritized this town and college savings as the destination for my income.
And even as it is, a lot of my income goes to pay for others. Only approximately 50% of people this country are net taxpayers as it is, and my federal taxes on average subsidize 50 other people. Similarly with state taxes. And all of our property taxes in this township subsidize other townships and school districts. As a statistical fact, we are already more than doing our part. If on top of all that we are supposed to feel guilty because we’re not reducing ourselves to the same lifestyle as the least fortunate among us, sorry but that’s just not right and not going to happen. When I finally get around occasionally around 10 at night to watch a little TV after working since dawn or before, I’ll do it with a clear conscious that I’ve personally earned that luxury. And if other’s want it, they need to make similar choices and put in the work. I guarantee you I had no connected relatives, didn’t inherit a dime and didn’t have anyone pay for anything or schools that gave me any advantage. If I can work my way here, others can too. If they don’t, they aren’t entitled to it.
Yowza. Okay, so if I'm understanding you correctly, did you really just claim that your education and hard work entitles you to be as ignorant as you want about real life issues in the big blue world? You live in Cranbury, so it's okay to neither know nor give a sh*t about anything that goes on outside of it? Wow.
Wow, you could have benefited from a Cranbury School education because you don't even seem to be able to comprehend the English language. The previous poster didn’t say anything of the sort. They said that they work hard to afford their lifestyle in Cranbury and shouldn’t feel guilty if it is better than someone else’s lifestyle elsewhere. You don’t seem to understand the definition of ignorance, which is lack of knowledge. It has nothing to do with wisdom, which speak to judgment, or comprehension, which speaks to interpretation of knowledge. Where did the poster say they were unaware of what other people experience? They also didn’t say that they “didn’t give a sh*t” about what goes on elsewhere. They were responding to a post that suggested it was bad that life in Cranbury was peaceful and simple, as if people in Cranbury were somehow stigmatized because they didn’t reduce themselves to being of equal footing with people less well off.
Our taxes are already heavily subsidizing many of those less fortunate in the State, which doesn't even include what many people contribute privately of their money or time. Saying they don't give a sh*t is basically spitting on someone who is already helping because you don't think they help enough. What exactly are you suggesting? That every township needs to be equal, that if any township is a little better off than another it is doing something wrong and its residents should be ashamed?
Guest
Posted: Mon, Oct 18 2010, 4:30 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
I am not one of the above posters, but I am wondering how the last poster could have possibly arrived at their conclusion. Glenn Beck, is that your liberal alter-ego jumping to conclusions?
Correction, make that 2 posters up. I agree with the "work hard, get ahead" poster.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Oct 18 2010, 4:28 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
I am not one of the above posters, but I am wondering how the last poster could have possibly arrived at their conclusion. Glenn Beck, is that your liberal alter-ego jumping to conclusions?
Guest
Posted: Mon, Oct 18 2010, 4:15 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
Quote:
I say, great.
Because that's what we pay and sacrifice for. We spend years working harder in school than many of our peers, paying for and working through college while staying up all night studying instead of partying, working our way up the ladder at work through hard work then consuming 15-18 hours a week of our life commuting out to our remote suburb homes while putting in long hours at work and always being on call and putting our money into living here instead of other things all specifically so that we can live in a quiet, safe, quaint little town with great schools where you know your neighbors and your kids know all their classmates.
If you were trying to imply there is anything wrong with that, you failed. I can’t speak for others, but I’ve “earned” this town. I grew up in a barely working class home in a marginal neighborhood with lousy schools and had to pick a state college I could afford and pay my way despite being qualified for other schools. I made choices, I made sacrifices and I worked hard to be able to afford living here. It’s not like I drive around in a fancy car or shuttle between here and my summer home. I prioritized this town and college savings as the destination for my income.
And even as it is, a lot of my income goes to pay for others. Only approximately 50% of people this country are net taxpayers as it is, and my federal taxes on average subsidize 50 other people. Similarly with state taxes. And all of our property taxes in this township subsidize other townships and school districts. As a statistical fact, we are already more than doing our part. If on top of all that we are supposed to feel guilty because we’re not reducing ourselves to the same lifestyle as the least fortunate among us, sorry but that’s just not right and not going to happen. When I finally get around occasionally around 10 at night to watch a little TV after working since dawn or before, I’ll do it with a clear conscious that I’ve personally earned that luxury. And if other’s want it, they need to make similar choices and put in the work. I guarantee you I had no connected relatives, didn’t inherit a dime and didn’t have anyone pay for anything or schools that gave me any advantage. If I can work my way here, others can too. If they don’t, they aren’t entitled to it.
Yowza. Okay, so if I'm understanding you correctly, did you really just claim that your education and hard work entitles you to be as ignorant as you want about real life issues in the big blue world? You live in Cranbury, so it's okay to neither know nor give a sh*t about anything that goes on outside of it? Wow.
Perhaps read the post again? This person was stating a simple moral: work hard and things in life are attainable. You can create you own destiny. Be responsible/accountable. Etc. I think he/she was saying everyone is not entitled at birth to everything in life they want. One needs to work for it.
Interpret what you will...but the sentiment seemed clear to me.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Oct 18 2010, 3:52 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Quote:
I say, great.
Because that's what we pay and sacrifice for. We spend years working harder in school than many of our peers, paying for and working through college while staying up all night studying instead of partying, working our way up the ladder at work through hard work then consuming 15-18 hours a week of our life commuting out to our remote suburb homes while putting in long hours at work and always being on call and putting our money into living here instead of other things all specifically so that we can live in a quiet, safe, quaint little town with great schools where you know your neighbors and your kids know all their classmates.
If you were trying to imply there is anything wrong with that, you failed. I can’t speak for others, but I’ve “earned” this town. I grew up in a barely working class home in a marginal neighborhood with lousy schools and had to pick a state college I could afford and pay my way despite being qualified for other schools. I made choices, I made sacrifices and I worked hard to be able to afford living here. It’s not like I drive around in a fancy car or shuttle between here and my summer home. I prioritized this town and college savings as the destination for my income.
And even as it is, a lot of my income goes to pay for others. Only approximately 50% of people this country are net taxpayers as it is, and my federal taxes on average subsidize 50 other people. Similarly with state taxes. And all of our property taxes in this township subsidize other townships and school districts. As a statistical fact, we are already more than doing our part. If on top of all that we are supposed to feel guilty because we’re not reducing ourselves to the same lifestyle as the least fortunate among us, sorry but that’s just not right and not going to happen. When I finally get around occasionally around 10 at night to watch a little TV after working since dawn or before, I’ll do it with a clear conscious that I’ve personally earned that luxury. And if other’s want it, they need to make similar choices and put in the work. I guarantee you I had no connected relatives, didn’t inherit a dime and didn’t have anyone pay for anything or schools that gave me any advantage. If I can work my way here, others can too. If they don’t, they aren’t entitled to it.
Yowza. Okay, so if I'm understanding you correctly, did you really just claim that your education and hard work entitles you to be as ignorant as you want about real life issues in the big blue world? You live in Cranbury, so it's okay to neither know nor give a sh*t about anything that goes on outside of it? Wow.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Oct 18 2010, 1:07 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
There was an interesting peice in the New York Times this weekend by a renowned phsycologist and researcher about how at the core the reason the Tea Party movement is gaining so much traction is not over economic or even social issues but "Karma." It went onto explain that what it meant was there is a large undertow of sentiment in this country that we have strayed too far from personal responsibility and too far into entitlement. Pushing for less taxes, smaller government and candidates who are politically incorrect is simply a consequence of this sentiment that government shouldn't re-disrtibuting wealth and thus helping others who have not taken responsibility for their own circumstances, or so the logic goes. Keep in mind this was in the Times, a source hardline conservatives lambast as too liberal.
The above poster seems to be reflecting that sentitment, which I am sure is shared by many more than just would identify themselves as Tea Party members.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Oct 18 2010, 11:31 am EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
That doesn't seem fair. But I guess those parents haven't organized a resistance movement yet.
Sometimes I read these forums and have to wonder what types of positive change could come about if only people would get as worked up about things like war, poverty, shady banking practices and genetically altered beef as they do about school bus stops, Sweetwater's attached garage and finding a parking space on Main St. It fairly boggles the mind.
That's why the saying is "all politics are local." All those career politicians keep their offices not based on whatever they do on national issues but by answering every letter or call from local constituents and showing up at local events and assuring everyone they care about the local issues that most directly affect them. That may be sad, but its true. That's why in national polls Congress has a 20% yet most people re-elect their own Congress person.
Cranbury, like many small. well-to-do towns, can have the luxury to engage in the silly, fairly trivial mundane minutiae of life. Most people live fairly comfortably here and the is insulated from the ravages that consume big city life. So, people have to focus on silly stuff while waiting for their favorite TV show to come on.
"You left your garbage can out the day after trash pickup".
OH MY, what is the world coming to?
I say, great.
Because that's what we pay and sacrifice for. We spend years working harder in school than many of our peers, paying for and working through college while staying up all night studying instead of partying, working our way up the ladder at work through hard work then consuming 15-18 hours a week of our life commuting out to our remote suburb homes while putting in long hours at work and always being on call and putting our money into living here instead of other things all specifically so that we can live in a quiet, safe, quaint little town with great schools where you know your neighbors and your kids know all their classmates.
If you were trying to imply there is anything wrong with that, you failed. I can’t speak for others, but I’ve “earned” this town. I grew up in a barely working class home in a marginal neighborhood with lousy schools and had to pick a state college I could afford and pay my way despite being qualified for other schools. I made choices, I made sacrifices and I worked hard to be able to afford living here. It’s not like I drive around in a fancy car or shuttle between here and my summer home. I prioritized this town and college savings as the destination for my income.
And even as it is, a lot of my income goes to pay for others. Only approximately 50% of people this country are net taxpayers as it is, and my federal taxes on average subsidize 50 other people. Similarly with state taxes. And all of our property taxes in this township subsidize other townships and school districts. As a statistical fact, we are already more than doing our part. If on top of all that we are supposed to feel guilty because we’re not reducing ourselves to the same lifestyle as the least fortunate among us, sorry but that’s just not right and not going to happen. When I finally get around occasionally around 10 at night to watch a little TV after working since dawn or before, I’ll do it with a clear conscious that I’ve personally earned that luxury. And if other’s want it, they need to make similar choices and put in the work. I guarantee you I had no connected relatives, didn’t inherit a dime and didn’t have anyone pay for anything or schools that gave me any advantage. If I can work my way here, others can too. If they don’t, they aren’t entitled to it.
guest25
Posted: Mon, Oct 18 2010, 10:52 am EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
I couldn't agree more with the previous poster. This town seems comsumed with the mudane - school bus pickup location, parking on Main Street and now garbage collection. People get a life.
Guest
Posted: Sun, Oct 17 2010, 11:40 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
That doesn't seem fair. But I guess those parents haven't organized a resistance movement yet.
Sometimes I read these forums and have to wonder what types of positive change could come about if only people would get as worked up about things like war, poverty, shady banking practices and genetically altered beef as they do about school bus stops, Sweetwater's attached garage and finding a parking space on Main St. It fairly boggles the mind.
That's why the saying is "all politics are local." All those career politicians keep their offices not based on whatever they do on national issues but by answering every letter or call from local constituents and showing up at local events and assuring everyone they care about the local issues that most directly affect them. That may be sad, but its true. That's why in national polls Congress has a 20% yet most people re-elect their own Congress person.
Cranbury, like many small. well-to-do towns, can have the luxury to engage in the silly, fairly trivial mundane minutiae of life. Most people live fairly comfortably here and the is insulated from the ravages that consume big city life. So, people have to focus on silly stuff while waiting for their favorite TV show to come on.
"You left your garbage can out the day after trash pickup".
OH MY, what is the world coming to?
Mr. Bill
Posted: Sat, Oct 16 2010, 10:52 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
Who is Bill for those of us not on the "inside"?
Oh No!
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 13 2010, 8:27 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Who is Bill for those of us not on the "inside"?
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 13 2010, 7:20 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Preciously, it isn't unequivocal. Again the information above is just a fraction of information, that is why I have encouraged you and others to research for yourselves instead of accusing parents of being whiny and lazy. Again don't have to agree, but also don't need to imply that parents are frustrated and upset because they have been inconvenienced.
I'm guessing you meant "precisely", which as it turns out is "irony".
The truth is, this issue is all about convenience. Every safety concern you have raised can easily be overcome by simply waiting with your kid near the bus stop. This may be inconvenient for you and you may be understandably upset that you will be inconvenienced. I get that. However, many parents are required to deal with far greater inconveniences, so you'll have to forgive their lack of sympathy.
OK Bill, got it......
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 13 2010, 7:11 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
Preciously, it isn't unequivocal. Again the information above is just a fraction of information, that is why I have encouraged you and others to research for yourselves instead of accusing parents of being whiny and lazy. Again don't have to agree, but also don't need to imply that parents are frustrated and upset because they have been inconvenienced.
I'm guessing you meant "precisely", which as it turns out is "irony".
The truth is, this issue is all about convenience. Every safety concern you have raised can easily be overcome by simply waiting with your kid near the bus stop. This may be inconvenient for you and you may be understandably upset that you will be inconvenienced. I get that. However, many parents are required to deal with far greater inconveniences, so you'll have to forgive their lack of sympathy.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 13 2010, 6:16 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
If I had specific knowledge I would have known whether they needed to make left turns. I simply have had to drive on the roads often enough in the morning to observe a lot of the bus stops in various parts of town.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 13 2010, 5:01 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
guest 3 wrote:
Anyone who has followed this issue from the beginning would know that this issue is not just about buses. The real issue is that the school administration is making major decisions without doing the proper research. In order to save face, the administration has flip-flopped on the reason for changing the stops, first it was to save time and money, and lastly for safety reasons. Regardless of the real reason, they continue scramble to find facts to justify their most recent position. And that my friends is the real problem.....it's not a "bus"problem, it's and administration problem. Keep digging, I am sure you will find more than meets the eye with many issues........
It sounds so movie like. A conspiracy you infer ? What is the reason? Money, power, a pay off? Who is controlling the board? The Mafia? There are many questions that need to be answered, LOL
I think you need to remember that this is just a bus stop change and not the end of the world. Little Johnny and little suzie will get to school just fine. If you cannot bear to stand on OTR waiting for the bus then drive like everyone else. Boo Hoo that you must walk 50 extra feet in the morning, Boo Hoo. Many people don't get busing and always have to walk or drive their children.
Not implying a conspiracy. Again the issue is not just about changing a bus stop/route. Clearly you haven't dealt with the administration directly or attended a board meeting on any matter. If you had you would be more informed rather than just posting opinions on a matter you don't know anything about. Stop implying parents don't want to walk an extra 50ft, that is not the issue AT ALL. Get the details then make an informed post.
You keep saying that but you realize that makes no sense, right? You keep saying the issue is NOT about the bus stop but about "dealing with the administration" and the way it makes unilateral decisions and communicates. But of course it is about the bus stop. Otherwise you are suggesting that all this fuss and showing up in force at the school board meeting and the letters to the paper, etc. is nothing more than the protest the principle of their decision and not the result. That's BS. The letter, the speakers at the meeting, etc. all were specifically interested in changing the bus route back, not just in complaining about how the school went about the decision.
So those of us not agreeing with you are not simply "uninformed" as you would like to believe. We simply aren't falling for your logic that this isn't about the actual bus stop. Of course it is. Whether the school acted poorly or not, the end result is some people want the route reverted and some people don’t see why it should be.
"uninformed" because your only source of information on this matter is this blog and the Cranbury Press. I never said you had to agree with the parent's position however, you shouldn't imply they are whining and complaining about walking an extra 50ft.
Their position is based on far many more facts and data then what has been posted here or in the Cranbury Press
.
Ummm. Okay, here's your big chance....enlighten us! You keep stating that there are "many more facts" and then fail to provide a single one. If you really believe that there is more to it than having to get up 10 minutes earlier, or walk an extra block or two, fine. But don't claim that everyone who disagrees with you is simply uninformed. Please, I'm
dying
to be informed. What
exactly
is the issue here?
There is a ton more facts than I am able to post here however, I will highlight just a few here:
1. There are over 9000 cars that travel OTR every day, it more than 3x the volume of any other bus stop roadway.
2. Fatality statics that state the probability of survival when being hit by a moving vehicle traveling 25mph vs 30mph, vs 35mph, vs 45 mph.
3. National Center for Safe Routes report indicating roads with more than 30mph is consider hazardous.
4. Administration's comparison to other school district information was inaccurate.
Again you don't have to agree with the parents position, but you need to stop implying their position is based on getting up an extra 10min and walking an extra few feet to bus stops. I also don't want to hear about saving time and money excuse, the administration themselves clearly stated their position is based only on safety, and has nothing to do with saving money and time. The administration believes that stops on OTR are safer then within the developments, and that is the argument between parents and the administration. Come to your own conclusion given the above, which do you think is a safer bus stop??
1. It's not necessarily true that the traffic is 3X greater any other stop. I looked at the same NJ DOT data you are getting this statistic from. First, it's based on sample data over one particular 48 hour period at different road segments. It's probably accurate for Old Trenton. But there is no data for many of the busy roads in town. The only Cranbury Neck data, for example, is only near Main Street. There is no data on the much more trafficked segment that begins at Ancil Davison through George Davison which has a couple bus stops. Nor any data for George Davison, or the Cranbury segments of Plainsboro and Dey Roads, all of which have stops. There is a data point for the corner of Plainsboro at Dey which is substantially higher than Old Trenton. I agree Old Trenton would be one of the more crowded roads but it is inaccurate to assume it is 3X greater than any other stop. Also, Old Trenton has much more space between the active roadway and the sidewalk than any of these other roads, many of which have no shoulder or sidewalk at all.
2. That fatality-speed statistic would be true on any road. Many of the stops in Cranbury are on roads with higher speed limits than Old Trenton.
3. Again, if the argument is that any speed over 30 MPH is hazardous, that applies to many stops in town, some of which have higher speeds than Old Trenton.
4. You need to be more specific on this point.
Also, I am unclear about the previous route that went onto the site streets. Did it involve any left turns? If so, the same National Center for Safe Routes you quote as well as the National Transportation Safety Board specifically advise that schools avoid routes with left turns and notes that this is particularly dangerous when needing to turn left onto a busy street. Again, I don’t know the route so this may not be an issue. But I would think needing to turn left onto Old Trenton would be more dangerous than stopping on the shoulder and loading kids, especially when the stop is not requiring any kids to cross the street. Some of the other bus stops in town are not only on roads with higher speed limits but require the kids to cross those high speed streets.
I am not involved with this route or the school so I don’t pretend to have all the facts or know what is best. I am simply noting that it doesn’t seem clear, based only on the facts presented here, that the school acted irresponsibly in considering what was the best route. Perhaps they did. The case just isn’t unequivocal here.
Precisely, it isn't unequivocal. Again the information above is just a fraction of information, that is why I have encouraged you and others to research for yourselves instead of accusing parents of being whiny and lazy. Again don't have to agree, but also don't need to imply that parents are frustrated and upset because they have been inconvenienced.
BTW- if and when the buses did pick up within the Lynch/Parkview developments they made a right back onto OTR, so no left turn was necessary. You also seem to have knowledge of routes & stops for someone who is not involved in the school or buses routes?
Anyway you have my point I have yours...... I am out.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 13 2010, 4:59 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: School board refuses to change bus stops
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
guest 3 wrote:
Anyone who has followed this issue from the beginning would know that this issue is not just about buses. The real issue is that the school administration is making major decisions without doing the proper research. In order to save face, the administration has flip-flopped on the reason for changing the stops, first it was to save time and money, and lastly for safety reasons. Regardless of the real reason, they continue scramble to find facts to justify their most recent position. And that my friends is the real problem.....it's not a "bus"problem, it's and administration problem. Keep digging, I am sure you will find more than meets the eye with many issues........
It sounds so movie like. A conspiracy you infer ? What is the reason? Money, power, a pay off? Who is controlling the board? The Mafia? There are many questions that need to be answered, LOL
I think you need to remember that this is just a bus stop change and not the end of the world. Little Johnny and little suzie will get to school just fine. If you cannot bear to stand on OTR waiting for the bus then drive like everyone else. Boo Hoo that you must walk 50 extra feet in the morning, Boo Hoo. Many people don't get busing and always have to walk or drive their children.
Not implying a conspiracy. Again the issue is not just about changing a bus stop/route. Clearly you haven't dealt with the administration directly or attended a board meeting on any matter. If you had you would be more informed rather than just posting opinions on a matter you don't know anything about. Stop implying parents don't want to walk an extra 50ft, that is not the issue AT ALL. Get the details then make an informed post.
You keep saying that but you realize that makes no sense, right? You keep saying the issue is NOT about the bus stop but about "dealing with the administration" and the way it makes unilateral decisions and communicates. But of course it is about the bus stop. Otherwise you are suggesting that all this fuss and showing up in force at the school board meeting and the letters to the paper, etc. is nothing more than the protest the principle of their decision and not the result. That's BS. The letter, the speakers at the meeting, etc. all were specifically interested in changing the bus route back, not just in complaining about how the school went about the decision.
So those of us not agreeing with you are not simply "uninformed" as you would like to believe. We simply aren't falling for your logic that this isn't about the actual bus stop. Of course it is. Whether the school acted poorly or not, the end result is some people want the route reverted and some people don’t see why it should be.
"uninformed" because your only source of information on this matter is this blog and the Cranbury Press. I never said you had to agree with the parent's position however, you shouldn't imply they are whining and complaining about walking an extra 50ft.
Their position is based on far many more facts and data then what has been posted here or in the Cranbury Press
.
Ummm. Okay, here's your big chance....enlighten us! You keep stating that there are "many more facts" and then fail to provide a single one. If you really believe that there is more to it than having to get up 10 minutes earlier, or walk an extra block or two, fine. But don't claim that everyone who disagrees with you is simply uninformed. Please, I'm
dying
to be informed. What
exactly
is the issue here?
There is a ton more facts than I am able to post here however, I will highlight just a few here:
1. There are over 9000 cars that travel OTR every day, it more than 3x the volume of any other bus stop roadway.
2. Fatality statics that state the probability of survival when being hit by a moving vehicle traveling 25mph vs 30mph, vs 35mph, vs 45 mph.
3. National Center for Safe Routes report indicating roads with more than 30mph is consider hazardous.
4. Administration's comparison to other school district information was inaccurate.
Again you don't have to agree with the parents position, but you need to stop implying their position is based on getting up an extra 10min and walking an extra few feet to bus stops. I also don't want to hear about saving time and money excuse, the administration themselves clearly stated their position is based only on safety, and has nothing to do with saving money and time. The administration believes that stops on OTR are safer then within the developments, and that is the argument between parents and the administration. Come to your own conclusion given the above, which do you think is a safer bus stop??
1. It's not necessarily true that the traffic is 3X greater any other stop. I looked at the same NJ DOT data you are getting this statistic from. First, it's based on sample data over one particular 48 hour period at different road segments. It's probably accurate for Old Trenton. But there is no data for many of the busy roads in town. The only Cranbury Neck data, for example, is only near Main Street. There is no data on the much more trafficked segment that begins at Ancil Davison through George Davison which has a couple bus stops. Nor any data for George Davison, or the Cranbury segments of Plainsboro and Dey Roads, all of which have stops. There is a data point for the corner of Plainsboro at Dey which is substantially higher than Old Trenton. I agree Old Trenton would be one of the more crowded roads but it is inaccurate to assume it is 3X greater than any other stop. Also, Old Trenton has much more space between the active roadway and the sidewalk than any of these other roads, many of which have no shoulder or sidewalk at all.
2. That fatality-speed statistic would be true on any road. Many of the stops in Cranbury are on roads with higher speed limits than Old Trenton.
3. Again, if the argument is that any speed over 30 MPH is hazardous, that applies to many stops in town, some of which have higher speeds than Old Trenton.
4. You need to be more specific on this point.
Also, I am unclear about the previous route that went onto the site streets. Did it involve any left turns? If so, the same National Center for Safe Routes you quote as well as the National Transportation Safety Board specifically advise that schools avoid routes with left turns and notes that this is particularly dangerous when needing to turn left onto a busy street. Again, I don’t know the route so this may not be an issue. But I would think needing to turn left onto Old Trenton would be more dangerous than stopping on the shoulder and loading kids, especially when the stop is not requiring any kids to cross the street. Some of the other bus stops in town are not only on roads with higher speed limits but require the kids to cross those high speed streets.
I am not involved with this route or the school so I don’t pretend to have all the facts or know what is best. I am simply noting that it doesn’t seem clear, based only on the facts presented here, that the school acted irresponsibly in considering what was the best route. Perhaps they did. The case just isn’t unequivocal here.
Preciously, it isn't unequivocal. Again the information above is just a fraction of information, that is why I have encouraged you and others to research for yourselves instead of accusing parents of being whiny and lazy. Again don't have to agree, but also don't need to imply that parents are frustrated and upset because they have been inconvenienced.
BTW- if and when the buses did pick up within the Lynch/Parkview developments they made a right back onto OTR, so no left turn was necessary. You also seem to have knowledge of routes & stops for someone who is not involved in the school or buses routes?
Anyway you have my point I have yours...... I am out.