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[quote="Guest"]If Springsteen is so convinced the rich should pay more taxes, why does he exploit the farmer's property tax loophole on 200 private acres of prime land? "...and the sign said, all trespassers, will be shot on site. So I jumped the fence and yelled at the house "Hey! What gives you the right?" ...to put up a fence to keep me out, or to keep Mother Nature in... If God was here he'd tell it to your face, "Man, you're some kind of sinner!"[/quote]
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Guest
Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2011, 12:19 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
And the average person has no idea what their own tax situation is let alone how the system works. When the NYT did a national poll last year they found that over 90% of respondents thought their federal taxes had gone up since Obama took office. This was across party lines. Yet the fact is that for over 98% of people their taxes technically went down due to a rebate associated with the Stimulus Plan and for the other 2% their federal taxes stayed the same. So over 90% of people were wrong about their own taxes. They didn’t even realize what they were net paying. So how can anyone take public opinion seriously about the system overall when a vast majority are that ignorant? Most people believe they are taxpayer and half of them are wrong. Most people believe those in the top income bracket for individuals, which includes the ultra-wealthy that have most of their income diverted to personal corporations, don’t “pay their fair share” when in fact they pay disproportionately. These are simple facts. If people were arguing that, yes the top income bracket people already subsidize everyone else but we should have them pay more because it is socially responsible or whatever the reason, at least that would be something to debate one way or the other. But right now the vast majority of people don’t even know what they’re talking about so they have no valid basis on which to opine.
do the weathiest among us have a conscience? they should not be exempt from paying their fair share of taxes just because they are in the "wealthy club." those taxes would bring over 1 billion dollars to "financially strapped" nj every year. christie's lame arguments about not raising tax on millionaires because they will move out of the state is unfounded and ridiculous. move out, who cares. another new home grown millionaire will take your place.
What is your definition of "fair share" and how are they “exempt”?
The highest income brackets pay more taxes on each dollar than everyone else. How is that exempt or less than a fair share? The top 10 percent of taxpayers are paying a vast majority of all taxes.
Perhaps if you want to appeal to their "conscious" you should stop implying that they are not paying a "fair share" when they are already doing most of the paying. Perhaps acknowledging that it is subsidizing of the less fortunate might yield better results. When someone does a good deed, thank you is usually a better response than F-U which is what you’re doing when you take someone’s money to pay for everyone else then accuse them of getting special breaks and not paying their share, especially when the attacks are coming from people who aren’t paying any taxes at all like half of all households in this country.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Apr 4 2011, 10:23 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
Guest wrote:
And the average person has no idea what their own tax situation is let alone how the system works. When the NYT did a national poll last year they found that over 90% of respondents thought their federal taxes had gone up since Obama took office. This was across party lines. Yet the fact is that for over 98% of people their taxes technically went down due to a rebate associated with the Stimulus Plan and for the other 2% their federal taxes stayed the same. So over 90% of people were wrong about their own taxes. They didn’t even realize what they were net paying. So how can anyone take public opinion seriously about the system overall when a vast majority are that ignorant? Most people believe they are taxpayer and half of them are wrong. Most people believe those in the top income bracket for individuals, which includes the ultra-wealthy that have most of their income diverted to personal corporations, don’t “pay their fair share” when in fact they pay disproportionately. These are simple facts. If people were arguing that, yes the top income bracket people already subsidize everyone else but we should have them pay more because it is socially responsible or whatever the reason, at least that would be something to debate one way or the other. But right now the vast majority of people don’t even know what they’re talking about so they have no valid basis on which to opine.
do the weathiest among us have a conscience? they should not be exempt from paying their fair share of taxes just because they are in the "wealthy club." those taxes would bring over 1 billion dollars to "financially strapped" nj every year. christie's lame arguments about not raising tax on millionaires because they will move out of the state is unfounded and ridiculous. move out, who cares. another new home grown millionaire will take your place.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Apr 4 2011, 5:49 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
And the average person has no idea what their own tax situation is let alone how the system works. When the NYT did a national poll last year they found that over 90% of respondents thought their federal taxes had gone up since Obama took office. This was across party lines. Yet the fact is that for over 98% of people their taxes technically went down due to a rebate associated with the Stimulus Plan and for the other 2% their federal taxes stayed the same. So over 90% of people were wrong about their own taxes. They didn’t even realize what they were net paying. So how can anyone take public opinion seriously about the system overall when a vast majority are that ignorant? Most people believe they are taxpayer and half of them are wrong. Most people believe those in the top income bracket for individuals, which includes the ultra-wealthy that have most of their income diverted to personal corporations, don’t “pay their fair share” when in fact they pay disproportionately. These are simple facts. If people were arguing that, yes the top income bracket people already subsidize everyone else but we should have them pay more because it is socially responsible or whatever the reason, at least that would be something to debate one way or the other. But right now the vast majority of people don’t even know what they’re talking about so they have no valid basis on which to opine.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Apr 4 2011, 5:42 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
Keep in mind most truly wealthy (not upper-middle class wealth like some of those who live here locally) pay a much lower tax rate than the upper-middle class in NJ who pay the top tax rate. This is because most of their wealth is not attributed to them as individuals but kept in their private corporations or LLC's. And these entities are not subject to the same AMT (alternative minimum tax) that individuals are, so they can benefit from all kinds of tax loopholes, the same kind that cause GE to receive billions in tax rebates from US taxpayers every year despite making billions in profits. They can, for example, have most of their income directly go toward “reinvestments” that are tax deferred and eventually taxed at a lower capital gains rate, and only after much has been syphoned to pay for their personal lifestyle as business expenses.
Here are a few stats to chew on:
* 50 percent of US households net pay no federal taxes
* 40 percent of US households net receive a tax rebate, meaning they are paying nothing and getting money subsidized from the half-of-US-households that actually net pay federal taxes (interesting most of these people will tell you, and believe it, that they are taxpayers because they do have taxes withheld on their paychecks but they don’t seem to realize that when their rebate exceeds their payments they didn’t actually pay any taxes)
* The average member of the Fortune 500 has an “effective” tax rate of 18 percent
* The average person making $500,000 has an effective tax rate of over 30 percent
My boss is worth 1,000 times what I am but has a lower tax rate than I do. That is the reality of the current system. And nothing being proposed by either political party would change it. In fact, both parties support preserving the lower business tax statuses that protect the super rich’s lower personal tax rates. The only thing they disagree on, tax-wise, is whether to increase the tax for the upper-middle-class and moderately wealthy who already vastly disproportionately pay into the system versus those both below and above them in income.
So if you believe in a progressive tax system why not start by at least making it consistently progressive and taxing the wealthiest Americans as much or more as those somewhat wealthy? As it is everyone is picking on the easy target, those with disposable income but not enough of it to hire entourages of lawyers, accountants and lobbyists to structure their income to avoid these taxes.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Apr 4 2011, 4:20 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
Guest wrote:
Just for the record its not a tax loophole. All of those Christmas trees and the income derived from them are a business. That business pays income and property taxes and doesn't add any more children to the school system.
$5,000 in taxes on 200 acres of prime real estate is a tax loophole. It may serve a good purpose and benefit the people of New Jersey (and Cranbury) by slowing the pace of development, but it is a loophole none-the-less.
The point was not that Bruce shouldn't exploit the tax loophole. Bruce probably pays his accountants lots of money to find ways to minimize his tax bills. Its just interesting that a millionaire who privately works to minimize his taxes is publicly supporting higher taxes for millionaires.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Apr 4 2011, 3:33 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
There wasn't much to say about the first post. It was a celebrity citing an opinion. Some can agree, some can disagree but Bruce saying it isn't any more or less significant than anyone on this fourm doing so.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Apr 4 2011, 11:28 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
The original message seems to have been lost, unfortunately
Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
By Amy Sancetta, AP
Bruce Springsteen has weighed in again on politics, this time in a slap to New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie's budget plans and their impact on state services to help poor people.
In a letter published in his hometown newspaper, The Boss thanks the Asbury Park Press for a March 27 front-page story entitled, "As poverty rises, cuts target aid."
"The article is one of the few that highlights the contradictions between a policy of large tax cuts, on the one hand, and cuts in services to those in the most dire conditions, on the other.
Springsteen's letter never mentions the GOP governor by name. Christie, who has gained attention in the Republican Party for his handling of the state's budget woes, is a Springsteen fan and has attended more than 100 of the rock 'n' roll icon's shows.
Springsteen often sings of the plight of the downtrodden, in songs such as Badlands and The Ghost of Tom Joad. He's a familiar sight during presidential elections, performing at rallies for Democratic presidential candidates John Kerry in 2004 and Barack Obama in 2008.
Read Springsteen's letter here and the story by Michael Symons that prompted the singer to reach out to the newspaper. USA TODAY and the Asbury Park Press are both owned by Gannett.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Apr 4 2011, 9:24 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
Just for the record its not a tax loophole. All of those Christmas trees and the income derived from them are a business. That business pays income and property taxes and doesn't add any more children to the school system.
Guest
Posted: Sun, Apr 3 2011, 11:53 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
Guest wrote:
it is a lame remark. just look around cranbury at all of the fields of christmas trees and you will see plenty of people using a tax loophole too. bruce springsteen is one of the most prolific, upstanding, caring and cool human beings on the planet. he sings the anthems of our lives. he is not selfish or greedy and one of his biggest concerns is fighting hunger, specifically supporting the community food bank of nj. in his words: "we can't let this bank fail."
Wow, a little over the top don't you think? He's just a guy. I'm sure he has his good traits and bad, like all of us. You make him sound like a saint.
Guest
Posted: Sun, Apr 3 2011, 10:48 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
it is a lame remark. just look around cranbury at all of the fields of christmas trees and you will see plenty of people using a tax loophole too. bruce springsteen is one of the most prolific, upstanding, caring and cool human beings on the planet. he sings the anthems of our lives. he is not selfish or greedy and one of his biggest concerns is fighting hunger, specifically supporting the community food bank of nj. in his words: "we can't let this bank fail."
Guest
Posted: Fri, Apr 1 2011, 10:27 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
Seems to me that anyone with common sense would rather have 200 acres of open space versus 200 homes that blot the landscape and add 400+ students to the school system at 18 grand a piece. That number of students would kill any towns budget. Thank goodness someone has the $$$ and foresight to keep some open space. As for "The Boss" he is a down to earh guy who has done plenty for the little guy and has been very active and supportive in any community where he has lived. I wish him well and wish more people with $$$$ were as good as he has been.
Guest
Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 11:38 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
Guest wrote:
If Springsteen is so convinced the rich should pay more taxes, why does he exploit the farmer's property tax loophole on 200 private acres of prime land?
"...and the sign said, all trespassers, will be shot on site.
So I jumped the fence and yelled at the house "Hey! What gives you the right?"
...to put up a fence to keep me out, or to keep Mother Nature in...
If God was here he'd tell it to your face, "Man, you're some kind of sinner!"
lame remark
Guest
Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 9:40 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
If Springsteen is so convinced the rich should pay more taxes, why does he exploit the farmer's property tax loophole on 200 private acres of prime land?
"...and the sign said, all trespassers, will be shot on site.
So I jumped the fence and yelled at the house "Hey! What gives you the right?"
...to put up a fence to keep me out, or to keep Mother Nature in...
If God was here he'd tell it to your face, "Man, you're some kind of sinner!"
Guest
Posted: Thu, Mar 31 2011, 5:33 pm EDT
Post subject: Bruce Springsteen at odds with N.J. Gov. Christie's budget
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB0QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.usatoday.com%2Fcommunities%2Fonpolitics%2Fpost%2F2011%2F03%2Fbruce-springsteen-chris-christie-budget-cuts-poverty%2F1&ei=7_KUTc2AO4W10QGrmqHwCw&usg=AFQjCNGeS5T7WS09aNGExgGn9m_G9P57KA