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[quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"]Reducing the principle may be unpalatable, but it is the most effective option in terms of preventing default. Something like a fifth of homes with a mortgage are "under water" and reduction provides homeowners with a reason not to walk away. Under the current version of the plan there would be an equity-sharing agreement if the value increases and the homeowner sells. The 5-year rate-freeze is used for ARMs that are about to adjust, increasing the payment. Much though I agree that it would be more fair to the rest of us to refinance into a longer-term loan it doesn't really keep people out of foreclosure and foreclosure hurts us all.[/quote] I can understand permanently reducing interest rates for people in trouble and even forgiving some accumulated interest if there is any, but I don't understand how they could reasonably reduce principle payments, with no mechanism to repay it if the market recovers and it becomes equity for them, when people who are successfully paying don't get the same treatment. You aren't just helping them out on their payments then, you are basically buying part of their house for them and giving it to them free. So if two neighbors have houses both worth $500K and one gets their priciple reduced by $200K and the other doesn't, in 10 years both will have assets potentially worth $800K (example), but one will have only had to pay down $300K to get there and the other had to both pay the full $500K and contribute their taxes to pay for their neighbors $200K. The neighbor who got help then gets a $500K profit while the one who had to pay the taxes to help them only gets a $300K profit. That makes no sense.[/quote]
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Guest
Posted: Fri, Oct 31 2008, 9:02 am EDT
Post subject: Re: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
Why not a program that reduces the interest rates for fixed periods then allows the homeowners to re-apply before the end of those intervals for extensions of the reduction on a need basis, thus allowing regular review of individual circumstances to make sure people legitimately need continued support? So perhaps the person initially had a low introductory rate of 5%. The program resets that for 5 more years. After 4.5 years, they can reapply, supplying their current financial details, and get a rate determined fair by an independent Board (not the bank itself with a vested interest), whether it is an extension of the same or some rate higher but determined within their means. And they should lock rate increases into reasonable escalations as with conventional mortgage (i.e. can't increase more than 2% at a time with a max cap over time of a 5% increase, etc.).
The program should also work like a variation of bankruptcy protection where the people taking advantage of it have legal limitations on their ability to use other credit. They should be ineligible to take any secondary mortgages or credit that uses their home as collateral, with some ability to apply for an exception based on a "life situation" only (i.e. medical emergencies or lost jobs, but not, for example to pay for home improvements, a new car, college, RV's, vacations, as many have done in the last decade). Similarly, they should be subject to a limit on their use of credit cards and other things that can compound their overall debt. Basically in order to apply for the program, like with bankruptcy, the person must accept all these restrictions, until such time as they opt out of the program and its benefits. It should also only be eligible for primary residences, where the people are actively living in them. Investment homes would be excluded.
If the reason for a foreclosure is the inability to handle the increased interest rate, this should address that problem. Since it only works for primary residences, it won't bail out the investors, who shouldn't be bailed out. And it won't bail out people who really are just racking up new debt on debt anyway because they couldn't fundamentally afford to own a home and shouldn't have been allowed to buy in the first place, for whom foreclosure was eventually inevitable even if this crisis hadn't happened. The problems of the last decade have put about 7-8 percent more households into home ownership than the historical average. Those are people who shouldn't own homes. It is not an inalienable right, despite being “the American dream.” The country doesn’t “owe” them a home. It is something to economically aspire to. It would be a mistake for any government program to try and protect those people or permanently artificially change the ratio of people who own homes from its historic average. The program should be designed to narrowly help people who can benefit from better terms but will be able to fundamentally afford their home over time with that help.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Oct 31 2008, 8:20 am EDT
Post subject: Re: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
Honestly, do you think the bill is meant to help those who are greedy and looked at the market for investments? If so, then we have an even worse situation on our hands in terms of government helping out greedy individuals.
The bill is meant for those who were targeted by suprime lenders. There should be no bail out for investors regardless of the market. Individuals who did have millions invested in AIG, Wachovia and Lehman, or Bear were hurt even worse. You don't see a bailout for these individuals. If people were dumb enough to buy the 6 mill home that's now worth 750K that's their issue, not a government issue.
Extending the length will help those who the bill targets...people who bought a primary residence with the intent of homeownership, but were hurt by predatory lending practices or job loss and risk losing their home not an investment.
However, let's assume we open it to investors. A turnaround like the 80's could take 10 years. How does a 5 year ARM help since in 5 years we are back to where we are today? If payments are kept the same per month then the investor can wait it out for 10 years as opposed to 5 without an adjustment.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Oct 31 2008, 7:58 am EDT
Post subject: Re: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
A huge proportion of foreclosures are investors, not people who actually live in the home. If I bought six million dollar houses in Florida that are now worth $750000 each do you think extending the length of the mortgage is going to help? We're way beyond that...this crisis is huge...
Guest
Posted: Fri, Oct 31 2008, 7:36 am EDT
Post subject: Re: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
"Fair" doesn't matter. People go into foreclosure for three reasons: they're under water, their rates go up and they can't afford the new payments, or they have a "life event" (death, health issue, divorce, job loss) and can't afford to pay. James is right - his is the most fair answer - but foreclosure is extremely expensive for both the community and the servicer. Banks end up paying close to $40k just to process the foreclosure, which can take up to 2 years in states that require them to go through the judiciary system (and people get to live in the house THE WHOLE TIME, basically rent-free. Good deal, huh?). There's no state where it takes less than a year. Then the bank has to sell the house as an REO, and gets way less than the mortgage value (in markets like LA, we're talking 50% for people who used their houses like piggy banks or who bought in the last 3 years). While a lot of people in the last group try to work it out and keep the house, for many it makes sense to buy a new house at the current prices and dump the old one before their FICO score drops because they were delinquent. Unless the housing market improves significantly we're going to see a lot more people sending their keys to their mortgager and all the banks can do is to try to generate enough goodwill to keep that from happening. Unfortunately, many people value personal finances over morals, which probably makes a lot of sense if you're focused on your family and not on the greater good. Fair doesn't matter anymore.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Oct 31 2008, 6:51 am EDT
Post subject: Re: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
The size of the mortgage crisis is likely to be much larger than we are aware of today. As more people lose their jobs, the mortgage crisis will grow, which will feed the credit crisis, etc. James' solution is not only fundamentally fair, but it is also scalable to the size of the actual mortgage crisis, which is paramount to addressing the problem. Although some home-owners may walk away under this model, I would expect the vast majority to stay in their homes and pay their low fixed rates, given their alternative options (renting, camping, etc.).
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 30 2008, 7:37 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
Guest wrote:
Reducing the principle may be unpalatable, but it is the most effective option in terms of preventing default. Something like a fifth of homes with a mortgage are "under water" and reduction provides homeowners with a reason not to walk away. Under the current version of the plan there would be an equity-sharing agreement if the value increases and the homeowner sells. The 5-year rate-freeze is used for ARMs that are about to adjust, increasing the payment. Much though I agree that it would be more fair to the rest of us to refinance into a longer-term loan it doesn't really keep people out of foreclosure and foreclosure hurts us all.
No, if you lock in the payments then it is equal to what the original terms of the loan were assuming they weren't 0 percent interest. Most homes are underwater and that's called homeownership, if people are going to walk away then coming through with a rescue plan is irrelevant. The equity sharing is a disincentive because the people will see this as big brother and my guess is it will end up being revised again after the home values increase and all of a sudden is unfair that big brother gets your money.
The proposal outlined above makes the most sense because the primary arguement is keeping people in the homes. It reduces the risk of foreclosure by keeping payments steady and at the same level as at inception. It keeps the banks healthy because they don't eat the loan. It keeps the homeowners happy as well because they can build equity.
A 5 year freeze if the houses are underwater still will mean people vacating homes and foreclosures popping up. It's a stall tactic as opposed to solution.
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 30 2008, 5:27 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
Guest wrote:
Reducing the principle may be unpalatable, but it is the most effective option in terms of preventing default. Something like a fifth of homes with a mortgage are "under water" and reduction provides homeowners with a reason not to walk away. Under the current version of the plan there would be an equity-sharing agreement if the value increases and the homeowner sells. The 5-year rate-freeze is used for ARMs that are about to adjust, increasing the payment. Much though I agree that it would be more fair to the rest of us to refinance into a longer-term loan it doesn't really keep people out of foreclosure and foreclosure hurts us all.
I can understand permanently reducing interest rates for people in trouble and even forgiving some accumulated interest if there is any, but I don't understand how they could reasonably reduce principle payments, with no mechanism to repay it if the market recovers and it becomes equity for them, when people who are successfully paying don't get the same treatment. You aren't just helping them out on their payments then, you are basically buying part of their house for them and giving it to them free. So if two neighbors have houses both worth $500K and one gets their priciple reduced by $200K and the other doesn't, in 10 years both will have assets potentially worth $800K (example), but one will have only had to pay down $300K to get there and the other had to both pay the full $500K and contribute their taxes to pay for their neighbors $200K. The neighbor who got help then gets a $500K profit while the one who had to pay the taxes to help them only gets a $300K profit. That makes no sense.
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 30 2008, 2:40 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
Reducing the principle may be unpalatable, but it is the most effective option in terms of preventing default. Something like a fifth of homes with a mortgage are "under water" and reduction provides homeowners with a reason not to walk away. Under the current version of the plan there would be an equity-sharing agreement if the value increases and the homeowner sells. The 5-year rate-freeze is used for ARMs that are about to adjust, increasing the payment. Much though I agree that it would be more fair to the rest of us to refinance into a longer-term loan it doesn't really keep people out of foreclosure and foreclosure hurts us all.
James
Posted: Thu, Oct 30 2008, 8:25 am EDT
Post subject: Re: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
The bailout plans by guaranteeing an interest rate for 5 years or reducing the principal owed does nothing to help the situation. By reducing principal the banks are losing money that was loaned thus creating an issue for share holders. Lowering interest rates for 5 years means the same situation as today is held.
What makes more sense to me is that the original interest rate and the principal are maintained. Then amortize the payments over whatever period of years in order to repay the loan while keeping the same payments per month. Yes, a 30 year loan may become 40 or 50, but there is no loss to the bank or homeowner. I would love to see this put through as opposed to forceing one or the other to take a hit.
AP
Posted: Wed, Oct 29 2008, 9:09 pm EDT
Post subject: U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
U.S. expected to unveil plan for homeowners
Government may spend $50 billion to provide relief on 3 million mortgages
The U.S. Treasury, FDIC and HUD are looking into a variety of potential options to provide relief for about 3 million at-risk mortgages.
WASHINGTON - The government is preparing to unveil a plan that would help around 3 million homeowners avoid foreclosure, sources briefed on the matter said.
A final deal had not been reached as of Wednesday afternoon and negotiations could still fall apart, but government agencies were contemplating using around $50 billion from the recently passed bailout of the financial industry to guarantee about $500 billion in mortgages.
The plan could include loan modifications that would lower interest rates for a five-year period, according to two people briefed on the plan, who asked not to be identified because details were still being worked out and the plan was not yet public.
The plan would be the most aggressive effort yet to limit damages from the collapse of the housing bubble that has shaken financial markets around the world and sparked fears of a global recession.
More than 4 million American homeowners were at least one payment behind on their mortgage loans at the end of June, and 500,000 were in some stage of the foreclosure process, according to the most recent data from the Mortgage Bankers Association.
The government’s program would be run by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. The agency’s chairman, Sheila Bair, said last week she was working “closely and creatively” with the Treasury Department on such a plan, but revealed few details.
The plan had been scheduled to be announced Wednesday but was pushed back because the details were still being finalized.
Andrew Gray, an FDIC spokesman, said it would be “premature to speculate about any final framework or parameters of a potential program.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27441061/