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[quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"]There has always been arguement that you need to develop 130. This board gets posts on the development of 130 for retail. At some point we either need to recognize that the PB has been correct that we need to protect the down town and restrict retail or that we need to open 130 for retail and the PB has been wrong. We can't complain that there is no retail allowed on 130 and then complain that the PB is allowing retail on 130. The proposed apartments are not COAH. They are 1-2 bedroom market rate apartments. Much like we see in other towns with apartments on top and retail below. I don't really have a hard position one way or the other. I just think the town residents need to decide what it is that they want on 130.[/quote] Sounds like you were at the meeting last night. Were you?[/quote]
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Guest
Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2010, 8:41 pm EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
Guest wrote:
I thought the point was to lower taxes by having more ratables...allowing more business friendly policies, including Main Street and Route 130.
Yes. That is supposed to be the main point of the master plan revision, but not the only point on the thread.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2010, 8:40 pm EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
Businesses on 130 simply could not fit on Main St. The only way around is to tear down buildings/homes and build new ones in our historic area which will not happen. The biggest space is David Wells and the antique store is not going anywhere.
130 if it is retail would compliment the downtown area. Get a prescription filled on 130, go have lunch on Main St. PNC left Main St and from what I hear 1st Constitution got a lot of new business because people dropped their accounts so they would not have to go out to 130. I know I was one of those who stopped a long time PNC relationship.
It also gives the town an opportunity. Put a sign at both ends of 130 Historic Village Commercial District or the like and all the new people shopping on 130 will check out the down town.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2010, 8:26 pm EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
I thought the point was to lower taxes by having more ratables...allowing more business friendly policies, including Main Street and Route 130.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2010, 7:49 pm EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
I can see where the point may have gotten lost in the back and forth. The point was not that we shouldn't allow retail on 130. The point was, we should take the opportunity to minimize the potential for shifting businesses from Main to 130.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2010, 9:47 am EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
There are plenty of those already nearby and who deliver. Why would a another on 130 be any different? Our family already gets pizza delivered sometimes and they go to Cranbury Pizza other times. When we go to Cranbury Pizza is is largely because it is on Main Street and it is part of the experience of Main Street.
You may be right but you won't know if you're wrong until it is too late. Given the opportunity, why not take steps to minimize the potential downside?
Because you ultimately have to get behind a vision based on the best available data and wisdom and proceed or accomplish nothing. I am all for careful planning and no one is suggesting that “steps aren’t being taken.” Isn’t that the whole point of the current process? The issue is do you really discourage ANY retail development on 130 because you believe that it can be developed on Main successfully and you fear letting it go on 130 will choke off Main development? Or do you accept either that Main and 130 can handle different retail due to their unique characteristics, or more cynically that Main is a lost cause but for a very narrow niche of retail development.
We don't help anyone if fear of any consequence leads us to preserve a status quo where neither Main Street is thriving and 130 goes undeveloped. Eventually land owners get fed up if local Townships throw up endless arbitrary roadblocks to any reasonable development and when their backs are against the wall they go legal. The net result is often worse than if a municipality got behind a reasonable plan and found a middle ground that worked for land owners and served the purpose of the community. And the community could benefit from some retail on 130.
I don’t pretend to have access to all the facts the planning board does or to have all the answers. Personally I would think we should try to prioritize getting retail on 130 over commercial, which usually has a higher headcount calculation (note what the reality is of a modern warehouse headcount is not relevant since NJ uses hypothetical calculations that vastly over-estimate commercial space headcount) and therefore may impact our future affordable housing obligations, or high density residential which burdens our schools and municipal services disproportionately to incremental tax revenue and therefore further burdens existing taxpayers. Since courts tend to be highly developer-friendly in New Jersey, we will ultimately have to let them do something and retail is the best choice.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2010, 7:54 am EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
Guest wrote:
There are plenty of those already nearby and who deliver. Why would a another on 130 be any different? Our family already gets pizza delivered sometimes and they go to Cranbury Pizza other times. When we go to Cranbury Pizza is is largely because it is on Main Street and it is part of the experience of Main Street.
You may be right but you won't know if you're wrong until it is too late. Given the opportunity, why not take steps to minimize the potential downside?
Guest
Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2010, 7:50 am EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
Guest wrote:
Dunkin Donuts, Wawa, 7/11 dry cleaners, clothing, jewelry, optician, etc. Any would be welcome in my opinion, even the big box stores. Who cares it is Route 130.
I think if as long as the entire stretch of highway is not developed but stores here and there it will be fine and convenient.
Leave Main Street alone and develop the highway. IMO Main Street is just a novelty anyway and the only draw is the Post Office, Gil and Berts, and the Dance Studio. Otherwise I can't see going to Main Street for anything else.
Right!
Why would anyone drive down Main St. at 25 MPH to bypass traffic on RT 130 racing along at 55 MPH? It just wouldn't attract the same flow intown as it would out of town. Except for the sightseers on weekends.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2010, 7:16 am EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
Dunkin Donuts, Wawa, 7/11 dry cleaners, clothing, jewelry, optician, etc. Any would be welcome in my opinion, even the big box stores. Who cares it is Route 130.
I think if as long as the entire stretch of highway is not developed but stores here and there it will be fine and convenient.
Leave Main Street alone and develop the highway. IMO Main Street is just a novelty anyway and the only draw is the Post Office, Gil and Berts, and the Dance Studio. Otherwise I can't see going to Main Street for anything else.
Guest
Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 8:10 pm EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
There are plenty of those already nearby and who deliver. Why would a another on 130 be any different? Our family already gets pizza delivered sometimes and they go to Cranbury Pizza other times. When we go to Cranbury Pizza is is largely because it is on Main Street and it is part of the experience of Main Street.
Guest
Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 7:34 pm EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
[quote="Guest"]
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
I can see retail shops with office space above, but, not apartments.
Who the Hell wants to live above a store on route 130?
quote]
Agreed.
Guest wrote:
The retail on 130 probably wouldn't compete with the retail here in town. It would be a different mix of shops that would benefit from high traffic volume. Most likely, big box stores and the like.
As it is proposed, the plan specifically encourages small retail shops that may be more likely to compete with Main St. Hopefully they will reconsider the plan to encourage more mid-sized retailers.
Name an example of retail that is succeeding on Main that you think would be as successful on Route 130?
I think they are totally different and the kind of stuff that might work on 130 would not be successful on Main.
A pizza and sub shop on 130 could draw a lot of business away from Cranbury Pizza, particularly if they offer delivery. Same goes for a chinese restaurant.
Guest
Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 7:53 am EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
[quote="Guest"]
Guest wrote:
I can see retail shops with office space above, but, not apartments.
Who the Hell wants to live above a store on route 130?
quote]
Agreed.
Guest wrote:
The retail on 130 probably wouldn't compete with the retail here in town. It would be a different mix of shops that would benefit from high traffic volume. Most likely, big box stores and the like.
As it is proposed, the plan specifically encourages small retail shops that may be more likely to compete with Main St. Hopefully they will reconsider the plan to encourage more mid-sized retailers.
Name an example of retail that is succeeding on Main that you think would be as successful on Route 130?
I think they are totally different and the kind of stuff that might work on 130 would not be successful on Main.
Guest
Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 12:54 am EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
Are they proposing to put retail at comer of Old Trenton and South Main?? I see the zoning changed in the Master Plan, what's up with that? It would be great to get rid of that green eye sore but why retail and apartments there? That will ruin the character of Cranbury village. Anyone know more about what's being planned?
Guest
Posted: Fri, Nov 12 2010, 6:15 pm EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
[quote="Guest"]I can see retail shops with office space above, but, not apartments.
Who the Hell wants to live above a store on route 130?
quote]
Agreed.
Guest wrote:
The retail on 130 probably wouldn't compete with the retail here in town. It would be a different mix of shops that would benefit from high traffic volume. Most likely, big box stores and the like.
As it is proposed, the plan specifically encourages small retail shops that may be more likely to compete with Main St. Hopefully they will reconsider the plan to encourage more mid-sized retailers.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Nov 12 2010, 5:26 pm EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
Guest wrote:
I can see retail shops with office space above, but, not apartments.
Who the Hell wants to live above a store on route 130?
The retail on 130 probably wouldn't compete with the retail here in town. It would be a different mix of shops that would benefit from high traffic volume. Most likely, big box stores and the like.
Big box stores would not be permitted nor would I want them here.
Let's remember (as someone who supports retail on 130) if we add a retail like the ShopRite center or big box then we're increasing traffic. That traffic will be pushed over onto Main St. as it will alleviate a large stretch of lights and traffic. We already see how bad 130 is today every morning and evening and how the traffic on Main St. has increased as a result. This causes issues for the kids going to school, for home owners on Main St. and for those who go into town.
So while I support small retail on 130, I am aware that there may also be ramifications for the other areas.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Nov 12 2010, 4:15 pm EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
I can see retail shops with office space above, but, not apartments.
Who the Hell wants to live above a store on route 130?
The retail on 130 probably wouldn't compete with the retail here in town. It would be a different mix of shops that would benefit from high traffic volume. Most likely, big box stores and the like.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Nov 12 2010, 10:15 am EST
Post subject: Re: Cranbury's Low Rent District?
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
If you really believed in a free market you wouldn't stand for these market distortions like zoning. The TC, planning board and zoning board continuelly interfer with property owner rights to sell or develop their land for a profit.
So because I can't change NJ zoning law or affect massive change, I can't have an opinion on what a property owner should be allowed to do?
Nope, I am just saying if you believe in a truly free market you would want no zoning on route 130. Do you believe?