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[quote="Guest"]It seems like for anyone in Cranbury to vote for them is to let the NJ corrupt party machine win. Wayne doesn't even pretend to represent us. He is a full-time employee of a Union (he manages their big blow up Rat, no joke) whose campaign was financed by the Union and he has made it clear his constituency is his union. Linda is in it for Linda, which is why she never votes against her party machine, ever. That's nice for her but why would we support that? The future of Cranbury as a viable township will continue to be under attack in the coming years. We are being targeted from multiple sides -- COAH, regionalization, school consolidation, etc. To vote for two people who's record clearly show they will support or not resist any of those town-killing initiatives is to unequivocally vote against our self-interests. Why would ANYONE do that unless they are either self-destructive or plan to move-out soon anyway and don't care about their neighbors. the only way for us to win is for Linda to get a shocking wake up call on the election. Even if she manages to win, she should see her margin of victory eroded to a dangerous thin margin and she should see her base of support in Cranbury as responsible for that. Then her self-interest may start to align with us. Then maybe she’ll rethink her loyalty to party machine over constituents. Wayne is a lost cause – he doesn’t even pretend to care – he has yet to EVER set foot in Cranbury and even for our big events like Cranbury Day he sends junior interns to man a station. By comparison at least Linda shows us and Baroni even ran in our charity race.[/quote]
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Guest
Posted: Mon, Nov 2 2009, 8:05 pm EST
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
I agree - since we'll never get legislation to impose term limits, it's up to the voters to throw out the incumbents by voting against them.
TFromer
Posted: Mon, Nov 2 2009, 12:00 pm EST
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
The sad thing is that most people who do care but are uneducated about the issues will turn to the media and expect to make an informed decision. In reality, they are getting a terribly slanted point of view which usually leans democratic.
I advocate throwing out the incumbents in order to send a stark message to the establishment that it is not in their control any longer. The days of treating us like sheeple has to end.
T
publius
Posted: Thu, Oct 29 2009, 5:35 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
publius wrote:
Guest wrote:
I hope both would take the time to read Common Sense by Thomas Paine. Winning our liberty from the british crown was considered impossible just 200 years ago. Samuel Adams said that if you are prepared to accept your servitude then you should get down on the ground and lick the hand that feeds you.
I've read Common Sense. I have it on my fireplace mantel. But, I fear that common sense is no longer so common. Only about half of the people eligible to vote do so. The majority of those who do vote feel that when they push that button for their candidates, their job is over.
NO!
You must hold an incumbents feet to the fire at all times.
"The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance", said Thomas Jefferson.
Most of the people that I know are college educated. But, most of them have business degrees and know precious little about government or politics. They seem to lack any critical thinking skills and just vote for their particular candidate no matter what dingbat happens to be running at the time.
I think that both major parties stink to high heaven. But, the gop has been especially heinous these past few years. At least the democrats have some good ideas. It's just too bad that they are too lilly-livered to get anywhere with them. The gop has mostly HORRIBLE ideas, but, they usually get them passed.
So, whadda ya gonna do?
When I say gop & democrats, I meant at the national level. At the state level they are both HORRIBLE. At the local level, parties are just in name only.
publius
Posted: Thu, Oct 29 2009, 5:30 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
Guest wrote:
I hope both would take the time to read Common Sense by Thomas Paine. Winning our liberty from the british crown was considered impossible just 200 years ago. Samuel Adams said that if you are prepared to accept your servitude then you should get down on the ground and lick the hand that feeds you.
I've read Common Sense. I have it on my fireplace mantel. But, I fear that common sense is no longer so common. Only about half of the people eligible to vote do so. The majority of those who do vote feel that when they push that button for their candidates, their job is over.
NO!
You must hold an incumbents feet to the fire at all times.
"The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance", said Thomas Jefferson.
Most of the people that I know are college educated. But, most of them have business degrees and know precious little about government or politics. They seem to lack any critical thinking skills and just vote for their particular candidate no matter what dingbat happens to be running at the time.
I think that both major parties stink to high heaven. But, the gop has been especially heinous these past few years. At least the democrats have some good ideas. It's just too bad that they are too lilly-livered to get anywhere with them. The gop has mostly HORRIBLE ideas, but, they usually get them passed.
So, whadda ya gonna do?
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 29 2009, 5:06 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
I do think which is why you disagree. If people operate in silos and without party interests you're right. However, they don't. Do you not look at NJ or Linda's comments on having to vote party lines? Do you not see our TC where Win is often the only vote in a 4-1 voting procedure? The only way to effect change is to change control. The people who don't like that are usually the ones in control.
Look at the TC for example, do you think another Democrat will do anything different than what is there already? The answer is no because they all vote together in lock step. David and David are very good friends and Glenn was party chair in town for the last three years. They will vote lock step. You need to shift the power. Then in another 5 years or so shift it again so no one party is in control like we have had for the last 10 years in town and longer at the state level.
Look at the assembly? Wayne voted to destroy Cranbury, the Democrats all voted in lock step to destroy Cranbury. Even ones who may have voted no did not for fear of party politics. You need a full shift in power to get a point across. Then shift it again so the interests don't take hold.
Your ideals only work in a situation where party politics are not involved and that is not the state of things today.
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 29 2009, 4:24 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
I beg to differ. The key is voting in someone who can do that job. Otherwise you're just voting in one idiot for another. You think a Democrat is bad? So you vote ina Republican? Wow...that's really been effective...THINK!
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 29 2009, 2:49 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
And the key is to vote out control. So if there is a Democrat control, then vote in Republican. If there is Republican control vote in Democrats. Not just voting in new blood because in some cases it is all new blood.
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 29 2009, 2:19 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
Guest wrote:
The answer is to vote out the incumbents of any party, unless they can show you they have the taxpayers interests covered.
This is the answer for me. It's time to vote out the incumbents. I'm hoping people don't vote along party lines, (wishful thinking in NJ).
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2009, 7:02 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
YES!
The last poster is exactly right. Incumbents in both parties have to learn the simple lesson that they work for us. Republicans and Democrats alike should be forced from office.
You see, if the special interests are made to be less influential because it will be the will of the people that gets these guys elected - the system will change.
The only way to impose term limits is very simply to vote out the incumbents in both parties every single time. Believe me, they will work very hard to prove that they are on our side... and if not... they will have a short lived career.
It makes me sick to watch Clinton and Obama stumping for Corzine just like it made me sick when Bush did it.
Obama has played golf 24 times this year. I am a member of a country club and I own a business and I have two children and I could not even attempt to golf that often... I cant imagine that the President has more time on his hands than I do.
Its pure... BS. We need to use our rights to stop the insanity.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2009, 6:22 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
The answer is to vote out the incumbents of any party, unless they can show you they have the taxpayers interests covered.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2009, 5:17 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
I hope both would take the time to read Common Sense by Thomas Paine. Winning our liberty from the british crown was considered impossible just 200 years ago. Samuel Adams said that if you are prepared to accept your servitude then you should get down on the ground and lick the hand that feeds you.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2009, 4:27 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
Dear God I find myself almost agreeing with Publius. Tis true, the power structure behind elected politicians is something much more fundamentally difficult to fix.
publius
Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2009, 4:25 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
TFromer wrote:
I just read this entire thread and I am happy to see that there are a few people in our small town who really do care about how they cast their vote and what ramifications their vote will have on the future of Cranbury and with respect to the gubernatorial race, the State of New Jersey.
I would like to take a moment to inject another line of reasoning into the discussion.
As a libertarian, I believe in the very basic rights of the U.S. Constitution. This begins with our God-given rights... Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness. Hopefully, all of you have taken the time to learn your rights as an American citizen and pass what you've learned down to your children directly.
Beyond these three "inalienable" rights, the one that libertarians value the most is the right to private property. Your private property rights are protected by the 5th and 14th amendments.
The Framers of the Constitution took great pains to limit governmental power and to protect the individual. Our private property rights showcase this fact.
As we move towards another election, I cannot help but feel as though we are at a turning point in our history as a nation. For more than 70 years, Republicans and Democrats alike have enriched themselves by evading the Constitution's limits on governmental power at the expense of the individual and private property. Look no further than the national debates on healthcare reform, climate change and cap and trade for your proof.
Greater governmental control requires greater taxation and less freedom for Americans like you and me. People who work hard for a living and entrust a representative to carry our voice. Yet they mock us and belittle us. These are not leaders elected by the people for the people. They are members of the political elite class elected by special interest groups and they have put us into servitude through oppressive taxation.
On this upcoming election day, we each have a chance to stop the dimming of the light of freedom caused by our corrupt officials. I urge you all to unseat the incumbents and send a message that will shock those in power. This is the only mechanism left in our power as citizens to take back our rights.
Sincerely,
Todd Fromer
huzzah huzzah huzzah
Ummmmm........I have news for you. Our gov. is beyond fixing. I hate to burst your bubble, but, the government goes beyond political parties. Lobbyists and their corporate masters control this country. Voting doesn't make all that much difference anymore. People may start out to do a good job, but, they are soon corrupted and prostitute themselves to the Bitch- Goddess called Mammon. Despite all of the flowery rhetoric and the false-positive attitude, we will just have to limp along and get by as best as we can. You may call me a nattering nabob of negativity, but.............I think that I'm right on this one.
Isn't a libertarian just a republican who has finally come to their senses?
TFromer
Posted: Tue, Oct 27 2009, 3:07 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
I just read this entire thread and I am happy to see that there are a few people in our small town who really do care about how they cast their vote and what ramifications their vote will have on the future of Cranbury and with respect to the gubernatorial race, the State of New Jersey.
I would like to take a moment to inject another line of reasoning into the discussion.
As a libertarian, I believe in the very basic rights of the U.S. Constitution. This begins with our God-given rights... Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness. Hopefully, all of you have taken the time to learn your rights as an American citizen and pass what you've learned down to your children directly.
Beyond these three "inalienable" rights, the one that libertarians value the most is the right to private property. Your private property rights are protected by the 5th and 14th amendments.
The Framers of the Constitution took great pains to limit governmental power and to protect the individual. Our private property rights showcase this fact.
As we move towards another election, I cannot help but feel as though we are at a turning point in our history as a nation. For more than 70 years, Republicans and Democrats alike have enriched themselves by evading the Constitution's limits on governmental power at the expense of the individual and private property. Look no further than the national debates on healthcare reform, climate change and cap and trade for your proof.
Greater governmental control requires greater taxation and less freedom for Americans like you and me. People who work hard for a living and entrust a representative to carry our voice. Yet they mock us and belittle us. These are not leaders elected by the people for the people. They are members of the political elite class elected by special interest groups and they have put us into servitude through oppressive taxation.
On this upcoming election day, we each have a chance to stop the dimming of the light of freedom caused by our corrupt officials. I urge you all to unseat the incumbents and send a message that will shock those in power. This is the only mechanism left in our power as citizens to take back our rights.
Sincerely,
Todd Fromer
wcody
Posted: Sun, Oct 25 2009, 11:27 am EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
One more thing we can give credit to Linda Greenstein for is bringing us Wayne D'Angelo. Of course, they are running together as those of you that have seen the extensive TV campaign. When Bill Baroni ran for Senate in 2007, there was an open Assembly seat. There was a competitive race among Democrats to see who would run on the ticket with Linda Greenstein. As this 2007 article shows, Linda Greenstein pushed for Wayne D'Angelo.
http://vip.politickernj.com/greenstein-endorses-dangelo-7070
Greenstein endorses D'Angelo
By Editor - April 6, 2007 - 6:33pm
Assemblywoman Linda Greenstein has made several phone calls to Democratic County Committee members in Mercer County today seeking support for labor leader Wayne D'Angelo for State Assembly, according to multiple sources with strong knowledge of the legislative race. D'Angelo and '05 candidate Dan Benson -- both former Hamilton Township Councilmen -- will face off on Saturday to be Greenstein's running mate for the open 14th district seat.
Guest2
Posted: Sun, Oct 25 2009, 10:45 am EDT
Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote
In fairness to guest you called him or her names first and it seem like the crux of what they said is in the notes from the meeting so your attack was harsh. The apology reply was provocative toward you if it was the same poster. You both have had plenty of opportunity to make your points. Can we discuss the present and the future again instead of something that happened a year ago? Win tried to steer it back on track.