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[quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"]Does anyone know what the 11,000 overcharge was for?[/quote] Condoms?[/quote] Obviously this person wants to "Cover Up" the truth behind the expenses, Pun Intended. So now with the joke out of the way, what were the 11,000 in expenses for?[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Homer</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 8:37 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">If we paid teachers like we pay pro athletes, there would be about 5,000 really great and highly paid teachers in the USA and the rest would find other jobs for lack of a decent salary. <br /> <br />That said, if those teachers could teach 20,000 to 100,000 kids in stadium classes at the same time, maybe it would all work out.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>complain</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 6:58 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">This is such a crazy thing to be arguing about...The teachers are the key to our future leaders. Everyone will complain and complain, yet we all will support our favorite team and attend a professional sporting even where most of the players make more then everyone on this blog put together. Just doesn't make sense</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun, Mar 28 2010, 1:35 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br /> <br />Teachers make an average of $60,000 for a job that requires 32-35 hours per week for 10 months per year (albeit many teachers put in more time than is required). If you want to compare teacher salaries to jobs that require 40-50 hours per week for 12 months per year, you have to build in assumptions for supplemental income (such as coaching, tutoring or summer school). <br /></td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />So you're saying that on ave teachers in NJ are making aprox $43/hr??? <br />That's more then a Registered Nurse (@$26/hr) and more then Admin Assistant ($13/hr) more then Customer Service Rep (@$12.5/hr) and more then an executive secretary (@$15.6/hr) and a lot more then licensed nurse (@$17.55/hr)</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat, Mar 27 2010, 2:24 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Let's try this one more time... <br /> <br />1 teacher making $75,000 is an above average income. <br /> <br />2 teachers making $150,000 is considered wealthy by the state. <br /> <br />Teachers make an average of $60,000 for a job that requires 32-35 hours per week for 10 months per year (albeit many teachers put in more time than is required). If you want to compare teacher salaries to jobs that require 40-50 hours per week for 12 months per year, you have to build in assumptions for supplemental income (such as coaching, tutoring or summer school). <br /> <br />Choosing to ignore this reality is like comparing teacher salaries in NJ with investment banker salaries in NYC- apples and oranges. <br /> <br />Nowhere did I say teachers must be married or that there is a rule that married couples must earn the same wages. Those are your assumptions which I suspect are either calculated to distract from your lack of a substantive argument, or an indication of some serious issues that may require therapy. Either way, good luck and God bless.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 11:04 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br />One teacher making $75,000 per year is above average for household income in NJ. Two teachers making $150k is defined by the state as wealthy. The fact is, teachers are typically fairly well paid and their benefits are outstanding.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You just don't get it. Your a poster child for how we need a better education system.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Are you going to post something with more substance, or just keep posting empty criticisms and insults? <br /> <br />The fact is, when you compare incomes for jobs in NJ, teachers make a good living and have outstanding benefits. The average person is getting hammered by the recession while teachers simply refuse to pitch-in. I think it is sad because I think teachers will be irrepairable damaged by their hard-line stance.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Pot calling the kettle black. I posted a clear and detailed explanation that it made no sense to evaluate an individual's pay on the theoretical assumption that they must be married and that their spouse must make the same pay, especially when a majority of households in this country are single earners. You then ignored all that and repeated the same claim that every teachers household income was their salary plus 25% for extra jobs times two for their fellow teacher spouse. So I would say you're the one lacking substance. But as I said before its clear you don't grasp this so there was no point continuing.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 12:51 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br />One teacher making $75,000 per year is above average for household income in NJ. Two teachers making $150k is defined by the state as wealthy. The fact is, teachers are typically fairly well paid and their benefits are outstanding.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You just don't get it. Your a poster child for how we need a better education system.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Are you going to post something with more substance, or just keep posting empty criticisms and insults? <br /> <br />The fact is, when you compare incomes for jobs in NJ, teachers make a good living and have outstanding benefits. The average person is getting hammered by the recession while teachers simply refuse to pitch-in. I think it is sad because I think teachers will be irrepairable damaged by their hard-line stance.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 12:35 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">No point wasting your breath. The teachers have made it clear. They refuse to contribute. They will keep using our children as shields to protect their own financial interests.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Wow.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 12:34 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>stay in school wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Average salary = $60,000 <br />+ coaching & summer school = $75,000 <br />X 2 incomes = $150,000 <br /> <br />Congratulations average teachers! According to the state of NJ, you're WEALTHY, you have great health benefits, awesome pensions AND tenure! <br /> <br />I guess it really does pay to stay in school.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Why did you asusme 2 sets of equal incomes? Are all teachers supposed to marry each other or something? My wife doesn't earn anything near what I do. So have we broken some rule that all families have macthed incomes or even 2 incomes? Are all teachers even married? Do they all have second and third jobs? Interesting set of assumptions.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />OK genius, it is easy to criticize, but how would you arrive at the average household income of a family of teachers? <br /> <br />And no, I don't consider coaching and summer school to be analagous to 2nd and 3rd jobs. That's like calling police overtime a second job. Both are voluntary extra work in the same job that you get paid extra for. Many people in the private sector have these extra responsibilities on an involuntary basis without the extra pay.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I don't need to come up with a different model because the entire premise of justifying one person's salary by assuming they have a spouse with a second income is invalid. That's like when employers used to justify paying women substantially less for the same jobs as men because they were only supposed to be supplemental income earners anyway. Everyone should be judged on the basis of their own merits individually.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />In other words, you have no logical alternative for arriving at a reasonable assumption for household income of a teacher-family. <br /> <br />The arguments posted on this board have been that teachers make sub-standard wages and that teachers can't afford to live in Cranbury. <br /> <br />One teacher making $75,000 per year is above average for household income in NJ. Two teachers making $150k is defined by the state as wealthy. The fact is, teachers are typically fairly well paid and their benefits are outstanding.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You just don't get it. Your a poster child for how we need a better education system.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri, Mar 26 2010, 12:28 am EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">No point wasting your breath. The teachers have made it clear. They refuse to contribute. They will keep using our children as shields to protect their own financial interests.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 11:57 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>stay in school wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Average salary = $60,000 <br />+ coaching & summer school = $75,000 <br />X 2 incomes = $150,000 <br /> <br />Congratulations average teachers! According to the state of NJ, you're WEALTHY, you have great health benefits, awesome pensions AND tenure! <br /> <br />I guess it really does pay to stay in school.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Why did you asusme 2 sets of equal incomes? Are all teachers supposed to marry each other or something? My wife doesn't earn anything near what I do. So have we broken some rule that all families have macthed incomes or even 2 incomes? Are all teachers even married? Do they all have second and third jobs? Interesting set of assumptions.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />OK genius, it is easy to criticize, but how would you arrive at the average household income of a family of teachers? <br /> <br />And no, I don't consider coaching and summer school to be analagous to 2nd and 3rd jobs. That's like calling police overtime a second job. Both are voluntary extra work in the same job that you get paid extra for. Many people in the private sector have these extra responsibilities on an involuntary basis without the extra pay.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I don't need to come up with a different model because the entire premise of justifying one person's salary by assuming they have a spouse with a second income is invalid. That's like when employers used to justify paying women substantially less for the same jobs as men because they were only supposed to be supplemental income earners anyway. Everyone should be judged on the basis of their own merits individually.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />In other words, you have no logical alternative for arriving at a reasonable assumption for household income of a teacher-family. <br /> <br />The arguments posted on this board have been that teachers make sub-standard wages and that teachers can't afford to live in Cranbury. <br /> <br />One teacher making $75,000 per year is above average for household income in NJ. Two teachers making $150k is defined by the state as wealthy. The fact is, teachers are typically fairly well paid and their benefits are outstanding.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 10:31 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Let me take shots at both sides in this debate. Cranbury doesn't have summer school. Don't compare salaries to NYC. This isn't NYC. Moreover, all comparisons to the financial sector are loony.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Comparing them to the financial industry doesn't work. Or the legal industry. Or the media industry. Or the transportation sector. Or the medical sector. Etc. You can say that for many things. Then if you try hard enough you can find ones they compare favorably to, like the food services industry or social workers. But what's the point? I don't understand why people think the best argument against paying quality wages to attract quality teachers is to hunt for some other job or statistic to prove they aren't doing that bad, but then selectively ignore any other job or statistic to the contrary. The bottom line is, how much do we value what they do? <br /> <br />It often seems like people get particularly bitter about teacher pay because there is an underlying resentment that anyone on a public payroll do better than any of the taxpayers that contribute to it (forgetting of course that the teachers pay taxes too, but that's another matter). This seems to be true of almost all public sector workers, with the possible exception of police and firemen in some cases where people seem to accept those are special circumstances. But why isolate that logic to just teachers? You pay your doctor. You pay your lawyer. You pay your stock broker. You pay your realtor. Most of these people probably make more than you too, but there's not the same level of bitterness. Yet I would argue that a teacher is at least as important as any of those positions. I might put my kids doctor on a similar level, but I would put the importance of my kids teachers ahead of my realtor, stock broker and even lawyer. And my kids see their doctor a couple times year at most. They see their teachers almost every day and we put a good chunk of our aspirations for their futures in their hands. <br /> <br />As a taxpayer and a parent, I would be willing to pay my kids teachers a lot more to assure they are great. Of course that only works if the public system allows the best to be rewarded and the worst or even just the so-so ones to be weeded out. Right now that's not possible because we don't pay them enough. The two need to go together -- better pay and none of this tenure nonsense.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 10:20 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>stay in school wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Average salary = $60,000 <br />+ coaching & summer school = $75,000 <br />X 2 incomes = $150,000 <br /> <br />Congratulations average teachers! According to the state of NJ, you're WEALTHY, you have great health benefits, awesome pensions AND tenure! <br /> <br />I guess it really does pay to stay in school.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Why did you asusme 2 sets of equal incomes? Are all teachers supposed to marry each other or something? My wife doesn't earn anything near what I do. So have we broken some rule that all families have macthed incomes or even 2 incomes? Are all teachers even married? Do they all have second and third jobs? Interesting set of assumptions.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />OK genius, it is easy to criticize, but how would you arrive at the average household income of a family of teachers? <br /> <br />And no, I don't consider coaching and summer school to be analagous to 2nd and 3rd jobs. That's like calling police overtime a second job. Both are voluntary extra work in the same job that you get paid extra for. Many people in the private sector have these extra responsibilities on an involuntary basis without the extra pay.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I don't need to come up with a different model because the entire premise of justifying one person's salary by assuming they have a spouse with a second income is invalid. That's like when employers used to justify paying women substantially less for the same jobs as men because they were only supposed to be supplemental income earners anyway. Everyone should be judged on the basis of their own merits individually.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 9:51 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Let me take shots at both sides in this debate. Cranbury doesn't have summer school. Don't compare salaries to NYC. This isn't NYC. Moreover, all comparisons to the financial sector are loony.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 8:42 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>stay in school wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Average salary = $60,000 <br />+ coaching & summer school = $75,000 <br />X 2 incomes = $150,000 <br /> <br />Congratulations average teachers! According to the state of NJ, you're WEALTHY, you have great health benefits, awesome pensions AND tenure! <br /> <br />I guess it really does pay to stay in school.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Why did you asusme 2 sets of equal incomes? Are all teachers supposed to marry each other or something? My wife doesn't earn anything near what I do. So have we broken some rule that all families have macthed incomes or even 2 incomes? Are all teachers even married? Do they all have second and third jobs? Interesting set of assumptions.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />OK genius, it is easy to criticize, but how would you arrive at the average household income of a family of teachers? <br /> <br />And no, I don't consider coaching and summer school to be analagous to 2nd and 3rd jobs. That's like calling police overtime a second job. Both are voluntary extra work in the same job that you get paid extra for. Many people in the private sector have these extra responsibilities on an involuntary basis without the extra pay.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 8:34 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">What is more important to the future of our society, quality teachers or public transit train ticket takers. Based on total comp and benefits, apparently the ticket takers. I am not saying the world doesn't need ticket takers, just that there should be some premium placed on the value of a good teacher that exceeds a job we could train almost anyone to do.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Guest</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 8:27 pm EDT<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Guest wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Just out of curiosity. How many of you work at places that hire kids out of college at 60 thou a year.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Plenty, actually, at least in NYC, LA, SF and Boston. We pay first job EA's $48K with absolutely no experience to do a job radically less important where I work. And those who had family connections to get summer internships at investment banks during their undergrad years can start right out of school with a BA as an associate in M&A or Strategic Planning making twice that. <br /> <br />But what's the point of the question? Most public teachers don't make $60K just out of college. Where did you get that fantasy? That's not what the chart on the previous page shows. That is the average wage for all teachers in the state. So the more appropriate question is, how many kids who graduated with undergrad then sought extra advanced degrees or certifications (like teachers do) average only $60K in their entire multi-decade work history?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I don't know many jobs that pay a kid out of college with a BA degree 60k a year. I am sure there are some, but it's not the majority.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />With all due respect then either your knowledge is out of date or you don't work in a position to know starting salaries in major industries in major markets like NYC. <br /> <br />But, again, what's the point since the premise of the question is fundamentally flawed since it incorrectly suggested that was the starting salary for teachers when its not.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Actually I do. If you are talking investment banks on Wall St or law firms yes. But, if you are talking general market and your including our area as well as NYC then you are far from a 60K starting salary. I know a number of parents who have college kids wishing they got 60k because they could afford to leave home then. The average I am seeing including my company as each practice manager gets the slots is between 30k and 40K.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Of course if you take the average of all professions it will always be low. But there are plenty of industries beyond just investment banks and law firms with competitively high starting salaries. My company is in the internet space and you can get an entry level mailroom job with no college education in the low $30's and an entry level tech job with a BA degree in the $60-range. And I've seen the research that shows these are typical in the market.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Don't tell our mail room guys they only make 12-14 an hour and that is NYC. You guys must have a very high pay scale at your company what do the execs make? I can tell you I work for an accounting firm and our entry level college grads start at $45k on average in NYC and somewhat less at our NJ offices.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Yes but $60K is also not the average pay of all people who work at your accounting firm. Treacher’s don’t start at $60 either. The difference is that the best people at your accounting firm end up earning a healthy 6-figure salary, or even better if they become top management. Or they go to work for one of the clients they worked on making six figures. We have many people in our Accounting, Internal Audit, Treasury and Financial Planning departments that came from accounting firms who now make 6-figure salaries. The best teachers in public schools never will unless they leave public education or give up on teaching and become administrators. That’s why the average is $60 despite teachers with decades of seniority. <br /> <br />$14 a hour isn’t far off from “low $30’s BTW.” And they would legally be eligible for overtime which would easily get them there. <br /> <br />Have you seen the Towers Perrin data for average salaries for white collar college degree jobs in NYC? I have and trust me teachers are well below the average.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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