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[quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/opinion/11wed4.html?ref=opinion[/quote] This just in... The New York Times doesn't agree with Gov. Christie Stop the presses![/quote] True, however the Times makes one very important point. It is silly sabre rattling to claim you will defy a court order. You can appeal a court order you can fight a court order, but if he defies the court order he will be disbarred and impeached, he took an oath to uphold the laws and unfortunately courts determine how those laws are interpreted. By saying this he appeals to his base, but accomplishes little else. Unfortunately, that seems to have been his plan the last few months. I hope he can do something substantive on pension reform, but I am beginning to doubt that it will happen.[/quote]
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Guest
Posted: Mon, May 16 2011, 12:11 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
No -- it was a typical editorial! You may not like a NYT opinion, though.
I expect the New York Times to back their opinions with facts. This op-ed is written like a politically motivated letter to the editor. It is sad to watch them lend creedence to their critics.
Personally, I'd rather read the NY Times op-eds and say "gee, I never thought about it like that before. They make a good point." More often, I am finding that is not the case, anymore.
It reads exactly like most editorials in newspapers. You just don't like the opinion.
I seem to recall a time when editors made salient points, backing their opinions with facts and convincing readers to look beyond the partisan rhetoric to the heart of the issues. Perhaps I am simply looking at the past through rose colored glasses. That said, this has turned into another dull "did not, did so" debate, so enjoy the last word.
My friend - your comments are redundant and don't make sense. Again if you want to be an apologist for Christie, please do so - but don't drag us all into a meaningless discussion about editorials unless you can back up your comments with "facts" about editorials
Guest
Posted: Sun, May 15 2011, 10:58 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
No -- it was a typical editorial! You may not like a NYT opinion, though.
I expect the New York Times to back their opinions with facts. This op-ed is written like a politically motivated letter to the editor. It is sad to watch them lend creedence to their critics.
Personally, I'd rather read the NY Times op-eds and say "gee, I never thought about it like that before. They make a good point." More often, I am finding that is not the case, anymore.
It reads exactly like most editorials in newspapers. You just don't like the opinion.
I seem to recall a time when editors made salient points, backing their opinions with facts and convincing readers to look beyond the partisan rhetoric to the heart of the issues. Perhaps I am simply looking at the past through rose colored glasses. That said, this has turned into another dull "did not, did so" debate, so enjoy the last word.
The point was salient. Look up the definition of the word. It is synonymous with conspicuous and it was certainly that.
As for looking past the rhetoric and being non-partisan, you have a poor memory. That has never been the history of newspaper editorials. In fact, the American tradition of newspapers was once highly partisan, going back to the founding father’s day and before, and only attempted to take on a semblance of "objectivity" in the early part of the twentieth century. The editorial boards, however, have never tended toward that standard. Pick any given major paper from any given year and you will find accusations of bias from the editorial boards. You seem to be mistaking the tradition of the news departments with that of the editorial boards. Or perhaps you have interpreted opinions you agreed with as more objective and fact based than those you don’t.
The issue in this case is pretty simple without making it partisan. If Christie were to defy a ruling from the Supreme Court, other than via appeal to the US Supreme Court, he would be breaking the law and the Constitution of the State. Whether you like him or dislike him, whether you agree with his reasons or not, that is a statement of fact.
Guest
Posted: Sun, May 15 2011, 10:34 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
No -- it was a typical editorial! You may not like a NYT opinion, though.
I expect the New York Times to back their opinions with facts. This op-ed is written like a politically motivated letter to the editor. It is sad to watch them lend creedence to their critics.
Personally, I'd rather read the NY Times op-eds and say "gee, I never thought about it like that before. They make a good point." More often, I am finding that is not the case, anymore.
It reads exactly like most editorials in newspapers. You just don't like the opinion.
I seem to recall a time when editors made salient points, backing their opinions with facts and convincing readers to look beyond the partisan rhetoric to the heart of the issues. Perhaps I am simply looking at the past through rose colored glasses. That said, this has turned into another dull "did not, did so" debate, so enjoy the last word.
Guest
Posted: Sun, May 15 2011, 7:55 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
No -- it was a typical editorial! You may not like a NYT opinion, though.
I expect the New York Times to back their opinions with facts. This op-ed is written like a politically motivated letter to the editor. It is sad to watch them lend creedence to their critics.
Personally, I'd rather read the NY Times op-eds and say "gee, I never thought about it like that before. They make a good point." More often, I am finding that is not the case, anymore.
It reads exactly like most editorials in newspapers. You just don't like the opinion.
Guest
Posted: Sun, May 15 2011, 12:38 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
As another poster said, you don't like the NYT opinion page - so what?
Make your own point about Christie's behavior
Guest
Posted: Sun, May 15 2011, 12:30 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
Guest wrote:
No -- it was a typical editorial! You may not like a NYT opinion, though.
I expect the New York Times to back their opinions with facts. This op-ed is written like a politically motivated letter to the editor. It is sad to watch them lend creedence to their critics.
Personally, I'd rather read the NY Times op-eds and say "gee, I never thought about it like that before. They make a good point." More often, I am finding that is not the case, anymore.
Guest
Posted: Sun, May 15 2011, 8:37 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
No -- it was a typical editorial! You may not like a NYT opinion, though.
Guest
Posted: Sun, May 15 2011, 8:23 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
So you find my response to be lacking because it is an opinion backed up by little more than more opinions? That is the point. An op-ed from the vaunted NY Times should be of a higher quality than some jack-hole yammering away on an anonymous blog. However, if you read their piece, it is little more than an opinion backed up by their opinions. To say Christie is \"disproportionately punishing" poor children or "gleefully" disobeying the supreme court is simply backing up their opinion with more opinion. It is no better than Fox News asking 6 pundits with the same political views questions about Obama.In my opinion, the NY Times stooping to the same level of "journalism" as Fox "News" is as pathetic as the Fonz ina leather jacket on water skis jumping a shark.
Guest
Posted: Fri, May 13 2011, 10:13 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
Guest wrote:
The problem I have with the Times is they have stooped to positioning their opinions as facts. Let me explain.
This editorial is from the opinion page. However, the "opinion" appears to be that it is irresponsible for Christie to consider defying the state supreme court. I have no issue with the times expressing their opinion.
However, as you read the editorial, several other opinions are laced into their story, and these opinions are positioned as facts. In my opinion, the Times is deliberately trying to deceive readers with their approach and I think this is politically motivated.
To me, the Times has jumped the shark by stooping to the level of fox "news". I expect more from the Times.
First, as you note it was an editorial on the op ed page, not a an article. By definition anyone reading it is supposed to understand it is opinion and not necessarily fact.
Second, I just re-read the op ed and didn't see any glariing examples to your point. You didn't provide any specific examples. Please do.
This was a classic op ed format. Do you regularly read op eds? If so, you wouldn't likely call it a jump the shark moment.
Guest
Posted: Fri, May 13 2011, 6:35 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
The problem I have with the Times is they have stooped to positioning their opinions as facts. Let me explain.
This editorial is from the opinion page. However, the "opinion" appears to be that it is irresponsible for Christie to consider defying the state supreme court. I have no issue with the times expressing their opinion.
However, as you read the editorial, several other opinions are laced into their story, and these opinions are positioned as facts. In my opinion, the Times is deliberately trying to deceive readers with their approach and I think this is politically motivated.
To me, the Times has jumped the shark by stooping to the level of fox "news". I expect more from the Times.
Guest
Posted: Wed, May 11 2011, 10:19 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/opinion/11wed4.html?ref=opinion
This just in... The New York Times doesn't agree with Gov. Christie
Stop the presses!
I assume Christie is just bluffing (or blustering depending on your POV) but you can't seriously believe that defying a state supreme court ruling is a "matter of opinion" that one can agree or disagree with do you? If you allow that the Governor can simply disregard the Constitutional authority of the Supreme Court then by what authority does he rule since his power derives from the same Constitution? Once Christie basically says that laws we don't agree with are optional, where does it stop? Why doesn't Cranbury simply stop sending taxes to the state? We give a whole lot more than we give and could save a lot of money if we simply opted out. Right now the State derives its authority from the constitution. If Christie makes that elective, I don't see why we shouldn't do whatever we want as a Township.
That's why they are calling it a "jump the shark" moment because what he's suggesting borders somewhere between dictatorship and anarchy. I agree with him that the school funding laws are terrible BTW, but that doesn’t mean anyone should just be able to start ignoring the law. Change it or live with it.
Guest
Posted: Wed, May 11 2011, 7:24 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/opinion/11wed4.html?ref=opinion
This just in... The New York Times doesn't agree with Gov. Christie
Stop the presses!
True, however the Times makes one very important point. It is silly sabre rattling to claim you will defy a court order. You can appeal a court order you can fight a court order, but if he defies the court order he will be disbarred and impeached, he took an oath to uphold the laws and unfortunately courts determine how those laws are interpreted. By saying this he appeals to his base, but accomplishes little else. Unfortunately, that seems to have been his plan the last few months. I hope he can do something substantive on pension reform, but I am beginning to doubt that it will happen.
Guest
Posted: Wed, May 11 2011, 2:42 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
Guest wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/opinion/11wed4.html?ref=opinion
This just in... The New York Times doesn't agree with Gov. Christie
Stop the presses!
Guest
Posted: Wed, May 11 2011, 12:48 pm EDT
Post subject: Mr. Christie will have to comply — unless he wants to defy the rule of law
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/opinion/11wed4.html?ref=opinion