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[quote="anon-8p53"][quote="anon-9p12"]Was it purposeful that you did not mention that there are two new restaurants coming to downtown and that the bookworm is being redone as a home to help build your case? [/quote] What are the two new restaurants? You can't count Molto Bene since it is just relocating from a different Main Street location.[/quote]
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anon-p83r
Posted: Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:24 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
Please get a life, people. It may feel good to vent on this forum but it is in no ways gets things done. If you feel something is truly wrong, you must go through the right channels.
Amusing too that you suddenly become aware of what the Master Plan has in it and the town and multiple township committees have been working toward, and now you complain?
anon-5651
Posted: Tue, Jun 23 2015, 7:38 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
Between contamination, demolition, and acquisition costs I am not sure we can afford it as a town. I understand that the TC is anticipating costs in the millions affordable housing and lake dredging. Add on at least a few million here and suddenly our taxes are much higher.
anon-0493
Posted: Mon, Jun 22 2015, 10:54 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
Why do we want to give our town away to developers who don't care or understand how unique and valuable it is? Can't we just level the Hagerty and Cheney eyesores and absorb those properties as open farmland like we have done with so many other properties in town. Driving past Stults and the surrounding farmlands and then arriving at our little historic village is the ultimate gratification of living here. The last thing we need is a strip mall or some overwrought pretentious development at the end of town.
anon-n00n
Posted: Mon, Jun 22 2015, 4:15 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
savethedowntown-617n wrote:
At a base level, the Master Plan allows super intense development on these parcels, similear to whats being discussed. This was done by our current Planner and the Planning Board at that time on the premise that big incentives must be offered to get the properties looking decent again. That premise was flawed. The Town should have instead forced the property owners to fix up and maintain the sites, rather then reward their neglectful upkeep with super beneficial zoning. The redevelopment process now in play simply gives the developer and the town the chance to add detail to the concept in the master plan, which is a very intense commercial development.
If we don't like what is now being proposed, we must insist that the redevelopment process be stopped and the property returned to the zoning it had before our Planner decided to create a super intense zone for these parcels.
We can attend all the meetings we want for the next year, but until the zoning is changed to something reasonable, all we are doing is addressing the details and the window dressing for the super intense zoning that is already in play.
The super intense zoning needs to be re-thought.
btw, if you want an idea of what these parcels will look like if this allows proceeds as outlined by our Planner, go see Robbinsville on Route 33. Then ask, is that we you want to see on Main Street in Cranbury. Then ask, what would you rather see. Its not to late to stop the train, but soon, very soon, it will be.
Can the zoning be changed or is it to late and the few folks selling that only care about the $$$ will get the last laugh.
anon-0592
Posted: Sat, Jun 20 2015, 3:21 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
It's 50 if it is unmarked. 45 must be posted.
Yepper-4679
Posted: Sat, Jun 20 2015, 6:59 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
All the the sections of town that are 25 mph have signs up already so if your still writting tickets in those areas it goes to show you that more speed limits signs aren't going to help in the other areas and that signs just don't matter anyway. I would assume that the police can't write tickets on those proposed areas because people don't know what the actual speed is suppose to be. I thought that by law if the roads didn't have posted speed limit signs then it was 45 or 50 mph.??
anon-0592
Posted: Wed, Jun 17 2015, 7:54 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
Jay what's this I hear about speed limit changes please comment on this. If what I heard is true, bad pr move all around and by the negative responses I've heard, it's bad for any committee member looking to be re elected.
anon-0n4p
Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2015, 6:05 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
I'll add one last thought before I sign out on all of this and re-direct my efforts to more productive items like making sure that as many other large NJ development companies as possible know about this opportunity so we can get some competitive options.... I do not like that SD was singled out as some sort of culprit in all of this by GJ.
GJ, please rest assured that there was dozens of us after the most recent meeting who had major concerns about this issue and were very curious as to why you went out of your way to mention that this was the only developer who proposed a sufficient plan. It came across as a highly unusual vetting of the applicant (or soon-to-bo applicant) as if your mind was already made up and you were trying to sell us on this even though we're supposedly just at the very beginning of the public hearings. That is not what we need or expect.
anon-0n4p
Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2015, 4:43 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
when I say "we" I mean that in the capacity of allowing this to be anything other than what it is currently zoned for. I realized it is a privately owned lot. However, WE don't have to back down on our plan. Cranbury does not need a massive townhouse complex. Anyone who argues that it does is thinking of themselves or some other motive than what is BEST for us.
anon-0n4p
Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2015, 4:40 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
To the post 2 above, i think current zoning of max 52- 1/4 acres lots on those 13 acres is fine. However, that is as far as it can be pushed. Taking that an extending it to 61 townhouse, plus affordable unites plus a 5000 square foot bank and other retail is taking it was to far.
To the Mayor's post. Thank you for the clarifications. That being said, this is essentially a negotiation between a developer and the various boards/committees/councils. Granted, we are in the beginning stages of that. However, when you look back on this scenarios, the beginning stages are usually where the negotiations were won b/c one party set themselves up strong and the other weak.
To the decision makers here:
Keep something in mind. We are Cranbury. We do not need to cater to this one developer. We also do not need to cater to the three residents who allowed this lot to fall into disrepair. They will be gone and financially better off regardless of how this plays out. It is us who will live with the results, not them. Think of how different this town would be if Liedtke Drive was 80 townhouses. Think of the overall detriment that would be to the town.
Be the aggressor not the caterer. Don't tell the other party that they are our only option as was amazingly stated at the latest meeting. Tell them we have developers chomping at the bit for this and if they don't stick within our plan, someone else will. Play the game from the driver's seat, not the backseat.
When someone makes a ridiculous statement like "30% or so will be residences with school children". Call them out and let them know that we are smarter than to believe that BS. These are 3000 sf townhouses. Does any really believe that 70% of the residents in 3000 square foot townhouses will be people without children. That is complete absurdity. It will double or even triple that.
anon-np42
Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2015, 4:29 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
I think only 2-3 of the 9 members on the Planning Board when the Master Plan was last revised in 2010 are still on it. So the above comment about it being the current Planning Board is not correct.
savethedowntown-617n
Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2015, 4:03 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
At a base level, the Master Plan allows super intense development on these parcels, similear to whats being discussed. This was done by our current Planner and the Planning Board at that time on the premise that big incentives must be offered to get the properties looking decent again. That premise was flawed. The Town should have instead forced the property owners to fix up and maintain the sites, rather then reward their neglectful upkeep with super beneficial zoning. The redevelopment process now in play simply gives the developer and the town the chance to add detail to the concept in the master plan, which is a very intense commercial development.
If we don't like what is now being proposed, we must insist that the redevelopment process be stopped and the property returned to the zoning it had before our Planner decided to create a super intense zone for these parcels.
We can attend all the meetings we want for the next year, but until the zoning is changed to something reasonable, all we are doing is addressing the details and the window dressing for the super intense zoning that is already in play.
The super intense zoning needs to be re-thought.
btw, if you want an idea of what these parcels will look like if this allows proceeds as outlined by our Planner, go see Robbinsville on Route 33. Then ask, is that we you want to see on Main Street in Cranbury. Then ask, what would you rather see. Its not to late to stop the train, but soon, very soon, it will be.
James Taylor
Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2015, 3:31 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
I've been reading this thread and will try to alleviate some of the confusion.
There are two components to this property- A Redevelopment Plan for the area and then the actual Building Approval phase.
Redevelopment Plan
By designating the area in need of redevelopment we do not avoid Municipal Land Use Law or additional layers of oversight provided by a land use board i.e. Planning or Zoning.
In fact oversight is increased because unlike other development which goes to the Planning or Zoning board (depending on the application), the redevelopment plan in this case will have to be approved by both the Planning Board and the Township Committee.
The first step is for a subcommittee of Township Committee and Planning Board members to review the site, engineering reports, and planning reports then work on a suitable plan. The benefit in this case unlike a Master Plan is that we're not dealing in theory as we did in 2010.
The subcommittee’s redevelopment plan proposal then goes before the Planning Board for review, a hearing and a recommendation for approval to the Township Committee. The Township Committee can adopt, amend or reject the redevelopment plan, and it has to act by ordinance, which requires another public hearing.
Both the Planning Board and the Township Committee will take into account the Master Plan, but the Township Committee has the authority to override that document under certain circumstances.
All actions for hearing and adoption are done in public.
Building Approval Phase
The development approval phase of this project is no different than any developer coming into town.
Once the zoning rules are established the builder may opt to go before the Development Review Committee which is a non-binding board or commission. No developer is ever forced to go before the DRC, but it can benefit them.
When the builder is ready to develop they will submit an application and site plan to the planning board which is the appropriate board to hear the application in this instance.
The planning board in a public meeting will conduct the hearing in the same manner that they treat all other applications.
Final Note
As stated above, all actions for hearing and adoption are done in public, will continue to be and we'll continue to keep residents informed.
Meetings were held as follows:
December 22- TC meeting- initial agreement to review.
March 12- PB meeting- review of report.
March 23- TC meeting- review of report on area and agreement to proceed.
June 9- Public Information session.
There will be at least 2 more future public meetings on the zoning aspect of the area.
There will be further meetings at the Planning Board level at the Building Approval phase.
Until the June meeting no proposed figures were discussed and at this point no figures on density or any other element are final.
As always, I am very happy to address any concerns raised.
Regards,
Jay Taylor
anon-2527
Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2015, 2:30 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
The above math is based on two lots per acre. At 4 per acre, there would undoubtedly be interest from a developer who wants to put up single-family homes. However, our committee is treating this developer as though they are only option. Among other things, that is just a horrible negotiating strategy. Ultimately, this is a negotiation between the developer and the township boards and committees. Who in their right mind sits down and negotiating table and tells the other person that they are there only option? That is a recipe for losing. And that is exactly what happened at the most recent meeting when Glenn told the developer and the public hat he is our only option. I don't believe that to be true.
anon-2527
Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2015, 2:23 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
Two FYI's
One. The above post was wrong. It was deemed in need of redevelopment back in March. That is a done deal and a huge victory for the developer. The attitude that there is no official application yet is just an indication of the fact that we don't even realize the game started while the developer is dunking on the other end of the court.
Two. At $150,000 per lot, which is a reasonable price, someone could pay $6 million for those acres. That is likely more than what they are being offered now. We are all buying into the fact that this developer and his 61 condos are only option. That could not be further from true.
anon-r40p
Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2015, 1:27 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Downtown needs help, not South Main/hagerty/Cheney/Sockler/Kushner
Current zoning allows 4 dwelling units per acre. That's worth a lot more than 28 units.