Author	Message
Guest	Posted: Sun, Aug 8 2010, 11:22 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? I don't want it
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 8:31 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? A comment which may be made later this year after the new trash reform ordinance is passed by our town council. “It’s very obvious that people have a lack of understanding of our trash reform ordinance here in Cranbury. “The more people learn about this trash ordinance the more they like it.” Sound familiar? Guest wrote: Guest wrote: Guest wrote: Guest wrote: For our family it's going to boil down to three things, none of which has been determined yet: 1) How is the payment assessed? If it is tied to property taxes I can't see how it will be fair or economically for those of us with assessments that are a multiple of the Township average. 2) Exactly how much do we save by the Township-wide volume discount? Again, since I pay roughly 3-times the Township average for taxes, it would have to lower the average payment by over 2/3rds to break-even for me. It is hard to imagine it will do that without changing the service parameters. 3) How often do they provide service or is there any flexibility. I get two pick-ups a week and could not settle for one, not just based on volume but flexibility. Last winter I went 1.5 weeks several times and 2.5 weeks one time because of the combination of holidays and snow days consecutively disrupting service. If my service had only been weekly it would have been even worse. Plus once they finally did come they were excellent about picking up the extra bags and not every service would be. I have lived in numerous towns and cities in a couple different states and I have never been happier with both the cost and quality of my trash service as I am here where I have been able to select from several competitive vendors offering different service options. I am inclined to believe that it isn’t broke so it doesn’t need fixing. But I will keep an open mind for the facts to come out. If the thing that needs fixing though is to make it cheaper for some of my neighbors by shifting the burden to people like me with higher assessments while reducing our service, that isn’t fixing anything. Point one has already been stated at TC meetings and on this board. It will be a flat fee paid quarterly. They are not looking to build it into the tax rate so every residence would pay the same regardless of assessment. Great. And will it be twice a week or will I have that option? That question and others will be settled after it's determined to look at Trash collection per the TC. That will be part of the costs to bid the project. The only decision that has been made is that it will be flat quarterly fees.
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 11:43 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? Guest wrote: Guest wrote: Guest wrote: For our family it's going to boil down to three things, none of which has been determined yet: 1) How is the payment assessed? If it is tied to property taxes I can't see how it will be fair or economically for those of us with assessments that are a multiple of the Township average. 2) Exactly how much do we save by the Township-wide volume discount? Again, since I pay roughly 3-times the Township average for taxes, it would have to lower the average payment by over 2/3rds to break-even for me. It is hard to imagine it will do that without changing the service parameters. 3) How often do they provide service or is there any flexibility. I get two pick-ups a week and could not settle for one, not just based on volume but flexibility. Last winter I went 1.5 weeks several times and 2.5 weeks one time because of the combination of holidays and snow days consecutively disrupting service. If my service had only been weekly it would have been even worse. Plus once they finally did come they were excellent about picking up the extra bags and not every service would be. I have lived in numerous towns and cities in a couple different states and I have never been happier with both the cost and quality of my trash service as I am here where I have been able to select from several competitive vendors offering different service options. I am inclined to believe that it isn’t broke so it doesn’t need fixing. But I will keep an open mind for the facts to come out. If the thing that needs fixing though is to make it cheaper for some of my neighbors by shifting the burden to people like me with higher assessments while reducing our service, that isn’t fixing anything. Point one has already been stated at TC meetings and on this board. It will be a flat fee paid quarterly. They are not looking to build it into the tax rate so every residence would pay the same regardless of assessment. Great. And will it be twice a week or will I have that option? That question and others will be settled after it's determined to look at Trash collection per the TC. That will be part of the costs to bid the project. The only decision that has been made is that it will be flat quarterly fees.
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 11:11 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? Guest wrote: Guest wrote: For our family it's going to boil down to three things, none of which has been determined yet: 1) How is the payment assessed? If it is tied to property taxes I can't see how it will be fair or economically for those of us with assessments that are a multiple of the Township average. 2) Exactly how much do we save by the Township-wide volume discount? Again, since I pay roughly 3-times the Township average for taxes, it would have to lower the average payment by over 2/3rds to break-even for me. It is hard to imagine it will do that without changing the service parameters. 3) How often do they provide service or is there any flexibility. I get two pick-ups a week and could not settle for one, not just based on volume but flexibility. Last winter I went 1.5 weeks several times and 2.5 weeks one time because of the combination of holidays and snow days consecutively disrupting service. If my service had only been weekly it would have been even worse. Plus once they finally did come they were excellent about picking up the extra bags and not every service would be. I have lived in numerous towns and cities in a couple different states and I have never been happier with both the cost and quality of my trash service as I am here where I have been able to select from several competitive vendors offering different service options. I am inclined to believe that it isn’t broke so it doesn’t need fixing. But I will keep an open mind for the facts to come out. If the thing that needs fixing though is to make it cheaper for some of my neighbors by shifting the burden to people like me with higher assessments while reducing our service, that isn’t fixing anything. Point one has already been stated at TC meetings and on this board. It will be a flat fee paid quarterly. They are not looking to build it into the tax rate so every residence would pay the same regardless of assessment. Great. And will it be twice a week or will I have that option?
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 10:28 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? Trash is not broken why try to fix it?
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 10:27 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? Trash is not broken why try to fix it?
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 10:26 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? I heard a man in teddy's say that was done and all i had to do Was call city hall and ask. [quote="Guest"] Guest wrote: The analogy is not false you are distorting the facts to support your support of government taking on another service. Admit it you want government to run every facet of our lives. Sewer rates have been mishandled and they are run by our government. Just imagine what will happen down the road once we add trash to our local government. How about the people we elected focus on the issues that matter to us all and stop trying to distract us with this false need for trash reform. Guest wrote: Guest wrote: Guest2 wrote: If the cost is the same, then the residents are coming out ahead because the income tax advantages. Right now, the amount of money we spend is after tax money, if township takes over, the additional tax we pay to township is income tax deductible. If the $ amount of additional tax is not higher than what we are paying now, then we are saving the tax on it. Also, when township negotiates with the trash collection companies, it should have bigger bargaining power, should be easier to get better price. Just my 2 cents. Nope wrong not tax deductible. As for bargaining power have you noticed what shape our country is in? Do you think goverment is doing anything better then private industry these days?[/quote The state the country is in has nothing to do with bargaining power. Here is a thought experiment. Ignore the Cranbury government. Instead have all of the people who live in Cranbury as a group put out their garbage pick up for bid. Do you think we would get a better price than you individually. Obviously we would. Now have the town do it. Same answer. Now if you would like to organize the town and put it out for garbage bid please go do it. As for the analogy to sewer it is a false analogy. We essentially sell our sewer services to another government entity. In the garbage case we are bidding the service out to private contractors. The specifics of all of this are important. We should all play close attention to the details, but we should go forward and discover if a significant savings can be made. OK fine. Who needs "the government" Why don't you organize everyone and put our garbage out for bid and save us a bunch of money.
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 10:01 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? Guest wrote: For our family it's going to boil down to three things, none of which has been determined yet: 1) How is the payment assessed? If it is tied to property taxes I can't see how it will be fair or economically for those of us with assessments that are a multiple of the Township average. 2) Exactly how much do we save by the Township-wide volume discount? Again, since I pay roughly 3-times the Township average for taxes, it would have to lower the average payment by over 2/3rds to break-even for me. It is hard to imagine it will do that without changing the service parameters. 3) How often do they provide service or is there any flexibility. I get two pick-ups a week and could not settle for one, not just based on volume but flexibility. Last winter I went 1.5 weeks several times and 2.5 weeks one time because of the combination of holidays and snow days consecutively disrupting service. If my service had only been weekly it would have been even worse. Plus once they finally did come they were excellent about picking up the extra bags and not every service would be. I have lived in numerous towns and cities in a couple different states and I have never been happier with both the cost and quality of my trash service as I am here where I have been able to select from several competitive vendors offering different service options. I am inclined to believe that it isn’t broke so it doesn’t need fixing. But I will keep an open mind for the facts to come out. If the thing that needs fixing though is to make it cheaper for some of my neighbors by shifting the burden to people like me with higher assessments while reducing our service, that isn’t fixing anything. Point one has already been stated at TC meetings and on this board. It will be a flat fee paid quarterly. They are not looking to build it into the tax rate so every residence would pay the same regardless of assessment.
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 9:41 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? For our family it's going to boil down to three things, none of which has been determined yet: 1) How is the payment assessed? If it is tied to property taxes I can't see how it will be fair or economically for those of us with assessments that are a multiple of the Township average. 2) Exactly how much do we save by the Township-wide volume discount? Again, since I pay roughly 3-times the Township average for taxes, it would have to lower the average payment by over 2/3rds to break-even for me. It is hard to imagine it will do that without changing the service parameters. 3) How often do they provide service or is there any flexibility. I get two pick-ups a week and could not settle for one, not just based on volume but flexibility. Last winter I went 1.5 weeks several times and 2.5 weeks one time because of the combination of holidays and snow days consecutively disrupting service. If my service had only been weekly it would have been even worse. Plus once they finally did come they were excellent about picking up the extra bags and not every service would be. I have lived in numerous towns and cities in a couple different states and I have never been happier with both the cost and quality of my trash service as I am here where I have been able to select from several competitive vendors offering different service options. I am inclined to believe that it isn’t broke so it doesn’t need fixing. But I will keep an open mind for the facts to come out. If the thing that needs fixing though is to make it cheaper for some of my neighbors by shifting the burden to people like me with higher assessments while reducing our service, that isn’t fixing anything.
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 8:16 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? Don't forget down the line we could always say it's no longer economical and walk away. We did this years ago when collection went private. The sewer we have one entity we can use, it's not an option to walk away, and it's subsidizing another government entity. We are not adding employees to cover trash collection. So you can't compare Sewer to Trash.
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 7:19 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? Guest wrote: Who is the 6th guy other than the 5 TC members? He's the guy with the black helicopter responsible for tax assessments, sewer rates and making it rain on Cranbury Day.
Guest	Posted: Sat, Aug 7 2010, 1:12 am EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? Who is the 6th guy other than the 5 TC members?
Guest	Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 11:44 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? [quote="Guest"]The analogy is not false you are distorting the facts to support your support of government taking on another service. Admit it you want government to run every facet of our lives. Sewer rates have been mishandled and they are run by our government. Just imagine what will happen down the road once we add trash to our local government. How about the people we elected focus on the issues that matter to us all and stop trying to distract us with this false need for trash reform. Guest wrote: Guest wrote: Guest2 wrote: If the cost is the same, then the residents are coming out ahead because the income tax advantages. Right now, the amount of money we spend is after tax money, if township takes over, the additional tax we pay to township is income tax deductible. If the $ amount of additional tax is not higher than what we are paying now, then we are saving the tax on it. Also, when township negotiates with the trash collection companies, it should have bigger bargaining power, should be easier to get better price. Just my 2 cents. Nope wrong not tax deductible. As for bargaining power have you noticed what shape our country is in? Do you think goverment is doing anything better then private industry these days?[/quote The state the country is in has nothing to do with bargaining power. Here is a thought experiment. Ignore the Cranbury government. Instead have all of the people who live in Cranbury as a group put out their garbage pick up for bid. Do you think we would get a better price than you individually. Obviously we would. Now have the town do it. Same answer. Now if you would like to organize the town and put it out for garbage bid please go do it. As for the analogy to sewer it is a false analogy. We essentially sell our sewer services to another government entity. In the garbage case we are bidding the service out to private contractors. The specifics of all of this are important. We should all play close attention to the details, but we should go forward and discover if a significant savings can be made. By the way this evil "government" you speak of consists of six guys we all know and can talk to whenever we want. Look it is fine if you have conspiracy theories and fears of one world government and black helicopters, but we are talking about 6 people we know, so lighten up Francis.
Guest	Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 11:34 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? [quote="Guest"]The analogy is not false you are distorting the facts to support your support of government taking on another service. Admit it you want government to run every facet of our lives. Sewer rates have been mishandled and they are run by our government. Just imagine what will happen down the road once we add trash to our local government. How about the people we elected focus on the issues that matter to us all and stop trying to distract us with this false need for trash reform. Guest wrote: Guest wrote: Guest2 wrote: If the cost is the same, then the residents are coming out ahead because the income tax advantages. Right now, the amount of money we spend is after tax money, if township takes over, the additional tax we pay to township is income tax deductible. If the $ amount of additional tax is not higher than what we are paying now, then we are saving the tax on it. Also, when township negotiates with the trash collection companies, it should have bigger bargaining power, should be easier to get better price. Just my 2 cents. Nope wrong not tax deductible. As for bargaining power have you noticed what shape our country is in? Do you think goverment is doing anything better then private industry these days?[/quote The state the country is in has nothing to do with bargaining power. Here is a thought experiment. Ignore the Cranbury government. Instead have all of the people who live in Cranbury as a group put out their garbage pick up for bid. Do you think we would get a better price than you individually. Obviously we would. Now have the town do it. Same answer. Now if you would like to organize the town and put it out for garbage bid please go do it. As for the analogy to sewer it is a false analogy. We essentially sell our sewer services to another government entity. In the garbage case we are bidding the service out to private contractors. The specifics of all of this are important. We should all play close attention to the details, but we should go forward and discover if a significant savings can be made. OK fine. Who needs "the government" Why don't you organize everyone and put our garbage out for bid and save us a bunch of money.
Guest	Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 11:33 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? Guest wrote: Guest2 wrote: If the cost is the same, then the residents are coming out ahead because the income tax advantages. Right now, the amount of money we spend is after tax money, if township takes over, the additional tax we pay to township is income tax deductible. If the $ amount of additional tax is not higher than what we are paying now, then we are saving the tax on it. Also, when township negotiates with the trash collection companies, it should have bigger bargaining power, should be easier to get better price. Just my 2 cents. Nope wrong not tax deductible. As for bargaining power have you noticed what shape our country is in? Do you think goverment is doing anything better then private industry these days? Why are they wrong about the tax deduction? I believe their point was if it is part of our municiple budget and collected as part of our property tax asessment then it would be deductible, which is true. That assumes it would be handled that way which is an assumption. And if it is, then of course those with higher assessments will be subsidizing the service for those with lesser assessments.
Guest	Posted: Fri, Aug 6 2010, 11:30 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: CRANBURY: Does township want municipal trash service? What fact have I distorted.