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[quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"]Maybe increase the ticket price to help pay for this project? Majority of the state residents don't travel to NYC daily. This is not a federal funded project, right?[/quote] Actually, 1/3rd is federally funded (keep in mind federally-backed Amtrak shares the current maxed out tunnels and needs this relief capacity too), 1/3rd is funded by New York state (which is in worse budget trouble than NJ but ponied up) and 1/3rd is NJ funded. As for what's fair in terms of who funds it, consider a few things: 1) This is a project of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, a combined agency that has also funded and run car tunnels, the various airports in the region, the ports, the World Trade Center, PATH (which only benefits downtown commuters, far fewer than NJT), etc. So the NJ taxes of us train commuters have already contributed to projects like the World Trade Center, JFK, etc. that benefit substantially fewer NJ residents than the train tunnels to NYC; 2) In this area we are serviced by the Northeast Corridor line. Ours is far and away the most crowded line in the entire NJT system and from Princeton Jct we pay some of the highest fees (almost $15 one-way, every day, twice a day). Our line of the train is the only profitable part of the entire system – we subsidize the riders of all the other lines. The line along Bergen County by comparison operates at 30% occupancy while rush-hour on our line is often standing room only. Yet much of the money collected from NEC commuters has been used by the state to fund construction and ongoing operation of new stations that exclusively benefit the less traveled lines that can’t self-support themselves. So our ticket prices are paying for 7 different stations in one greater Township where we are serviced by one, even though our 1 has more users than the seven stations combined. Then let’s talk about the new Secaucus Transfer Station that is severely under-utilized and is, again, only useful to people on those other lines that already couldn’t pay for their own level of usage. So, frankly, we’re already overdue for some of our ticket prices to actually go to projects that benefit the most users and not politically-motivated projects that benefit those communities with disproportionate political influence. Besides, this tunnel benefits all the lines. 3) NJ residents who work in NY contribute billions a year in taxes to NJ. Almost none of the things the state spends money on benefits all taxpayers. But you would be hard pressed to find a larger group of taxpayers in this state that directly benefit from a single project as much as we would from this one. If your criteria is that only those that directly benefit should pay for any given expense then that undermines basically everything the state expenses. And on balance I guarantee you that if the NY commuters only had to contribute to the state for projects they benefit from they would save so much on taxes that we could 100% fund this and many other tunnels and still come out ahead. Not to mention that the studies show not adding tunnels to deal with the train capacity will have a ripple effect on everyone and cost the state billions of dollars in lost productivity, taxes, jobs, etc. and make the auto tunnels and bridges, turnpike and other major roads and highways a nightmare for everyone. The fact is why should be grateful NJ was only covering a 1/3rd of the cost given how critical it was to us regardless of how much of the bill we had to foot. Assuming it’s not just some play on Christie’s part for deal leverage that is doesn’t let play out to long (which one can only hope), it may go down in history as the single worst decision by a NJ governor since Ben Franklin’s son declared himself a Loyalist.[/quote]
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Guest
Posted: Mon, Nov 1 2010, 7:46 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
just saw Kat Alfonso on video with other teacher officials acting like fools, drinking and cursing and threatning Christie's life. Also rejoicing because they are playing on the public's dime. And these are the people teaching our children. They know they have tenure so "it is very, very hard" to get them fired. Shame on you!!
Just to be clear, Alfonso was not drinking or cursing. The line was not about the public's dime(because the public doesn't pay for union events). It was a reference to the unions dime. Further it is unclear what we say because we were shown a series of pictures with an audio track behind it.
Actually, it is her dime since she pays union dues. As a family member of a teacher, it always bothered us how the union spent the dues they forced and that they chose to have union conventions during the school year.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Nov 1 2010, 7:43 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Guest wrote:
just saw Kat Alfonso on video with other teacher officials acting like fools, drinking and cursing and threatning Christie's life. Also rejoicing because they are playing on the public's dime. And these are the people teaching our children. They know they have tenure so "it is very, very hard" to get them fired. Shame on you!!
Just to be clear, Alfonso was not drinking or cursing. The line was not about the public's dime(because the public doesn't pay for union events). It was a reference to the unions dime. Further it is unclear what we say because we were shown a series of pictures with an audio track behind it.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Nov 1 2010, 5:34 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
just saw Kat Alfonso on video with other teacher officials acting like fools, drinking and cursing and threatning Christie's life. Also rejoicing because they are playing on the public's dime. And these are the people teaching our children. They know they have tenure so "it is very, very hard" to get them fired. Shame on you!!
Guest
Posted: Sat, Oct 30 2010, 6:55 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Based on this new poll the majority of nj residents side with the governor killing the tunnel project.
Majority of N.J. residents support Gov. Christie's decision to kill Hudson River tunnel, poll finds
New Jersey residents dug the governor’s decision not to dig.
A majority of Garden State voters who participated in a new Rutgers-Eagleton poll supported Gov. Chris Christie’s decision on Wednesday to terminate the over-budget Hudson River commuter train tunnel.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/poll_finds_more_nj_residents_s.html
Guest
Posted: Fri, Oct 29 2010, 11:32 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
New York Times
Program by New Jersey Union Grooms Candidates
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/nyregion/30labor.html?hp
It's about time that working class people push back against the corporatists - Goodwin Sapprelle Christie Ryan Palin
Guest
Posted: Fri, Oct 29 2010, 10:30 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Christie has been a disaster. He may be scoring points with Tea Party members across the country for his presidential bid, but he's leaving behind scorched earth in the state.
And I voted for the guy. My bad.
I did because Corzine was a disaster too, I just underestimated that someone else could be worse and unlike some other candidates in the country right now he didn’t come across as extreme. I still don’t think he is an extremist the way some of the whack-jobs running elsewhere in the country are, but what he is, is a political equivalent of a sociopath. He seems to have no regard for the consequences of any of his actions as long as the actions support the image and principles he is trying to project. Long term reality doesn’t intervene.
So now not only are the lives of millions of high tax paying commuters completely screwed by him for decades to come, but the state will lose many more billions from the impact of the decision. And to add insult to injury he’ll now need to use $350 million more of our tax dollars to re-pay the Feds for the work already done. So as a taxpayer I am now paying to not get the new tunnel. Gee, thanks Governor. And don’t give me that crap about how the state is broke. The state is still spending money so it’s about priorities. And the Governor has chosen not to prioritize this project, despite the consequences and despite how many high taxpayers are affected. Or he just doesn’t want to do the REAL work of governing, of rolling up his sleeves and figuring out where to transfer the money from. So much easier to just say “we’re broke and can’t do it” because absolutist sound bites work well for his national base. It’s disgusting really.
I am actually for smaller government and consider myself a Libertarian. But a good libertarian would tell you the role of government is to keep us safe and build and maintain our roads and not much else. So it’s ironic that where we’re still spending billions on billions on discretionary stuff, he’s not elected not to even maintain our core transportation system, the one thing even a good Libertarian would agree with.
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 28 2010, 11:25 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Guest wrote:
Currently the delay is 25 minutes out of Penn Station on the Northeast Corridor line. If you don't think our home prices have a direct correlation to the time it takes to commute into NYC you haven't been paying attention.
Exactly. I shopped all over the state when moving here and there is definitely a correlation, not just within NJ but between NJ, Long Island, NY state and CT. The worst our NYC commute situation becomes the more people will look at those other options favorably. Simple fact.
And, yeah, the commute is basically a disaster these days. Aboit 30% of the time there are meaningful delays due to some congestion or failure on the line.
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 28 2010, 11:22 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Guest wrote:
Orginal Tunnel estimates were $8.7 Billion
Port Authority was contributing $3.0 Billion
Federal Government was contributing $3.0 Billion
New Jersey was contibuting $2.7 Billion
New York was contributing $0
The revised cost estimates were $9.7 Billion - $13.7 Billion
The port authority, Federal Government (who has $800 Billion stimulus fund) and New York were not going to contribute any further funding. Their expectation all cost overuns were to be born by New Jersey. Christie was willing to negotiate on how to share in cost overuns and bring down the prices. No other party would step in. The federal govrernment has the greatest ability to fund the project with stimulus money. Christie was doing the taxpayers of NJ a service trying to control uncontrolled spending and hopefully will find a better way to solve this in the future. Perhaps some of that money can be used to fund improved mass transit within New Jersey to keep jobs in NJ.
The jobs are already in NYC. You just want us commuters to keep paying for the rest of you but screw us at the same time? Or we're all supposed to quit and find lesser paying jobs in NJ? That would impact tax revenue too. We don't need more mass transit projects in NY before we need to fix the tunnel problem. They already blew a lot of money on the Secacus Transfer Station that almost no one uses. Not a dime should be spent on any project in NJ until they have funded the tunnel project first.
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 28 2010, 10:19 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Currently the delay is 25 minutes out of Penn Station on the Northeast Corridor line. If you don't think our home prices have a direct correlation to the time it takes to commute into NYC you haven't been paying attention.
Guest
Posted: Thu, Oct 28 2010, 10:15 am EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Guest wrote:
Orginal Tunnel estimates were $8.7 Billion
Port Authority was contributing $3.0 Billion
Federal Government was contributing $3.0 Billion
New Jersey was contibuting $2.7 Billion
New York was contributing $0
The revised cost estimates were $9.7 Billion - $13.7 Billion
The port authority, Federal Government (who has $800 Billion stimulus fund) and New York were not going to contribute any further funding. Their expectation all cost overuns were to be born by New Jersey. Christie was willing to negotiate on how to share in cost overuns and bring down the prices. No other party would step in. The federal govrernment has the greatest ability to fund the project with stimulus money. Christie was doing the taxpayers of NJ a service trying to control uncontrolled spending and hopefully will find a better way to solve this in the future. Perhaps some of that money can be used to fund improved mass transit within New Jersey to keep jobs in NJ.
Baroni/Christie talking points - They're not talking about the interest of taxpaying commuters. It's all politics - just like with the teachers union -losing $400,000 - Immagine stopping a need mass transit program in the middle of a recession.
Christie
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 27 2010, 11:51 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
I just saw Christie at an ALL YOU CAN EAT BUFFET, and they had to close the place down because it ran out of food!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yawn
You should get to bed earlier, Zippy!
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 27 2010, 10:19 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
We get $.10 on the dollar back from the feds. They should cover the cost overruns. It our damn money anyway!
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 27 2010, 9:53 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Guest wrote:
Orginal Tunnel estimates were $8.7 Billion
Port Authority was contributing $3.0 Billion
Federal Government was contributing $3.0 Billion
New Jersey was contibuting $2.7 Billion
New York was contributing $0
The revised cost estimates were $9.7 Billion - $13.7 Billion
The port authority, Federal Government (who has $800 Billion stimulus fund) and New York were not going to contribute any further funding. Their expectation all cost overuns were to be born by New Jersey. Christie was willing to negotiate on how to share in cost overuns and bring down the prices. No other party would step in. The federal govrernment has the greatest ability to fund the project with stimulus money. Christie was doing the taxpayers of NJ a service trying to control uncontrolled spending and hopefully will find a better way to solve this in the future. Perhaps some of that money can be used to fund improved mass transit within New Jersey to keep jobs in NJ.
I believe your sincerity. Believe me He will not spend a dime on improving Mass transit within NJ.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 27 2010, 9:34 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Orginal Tunnel estimates were $8.7 Billion
Port Authority was contributing $3.0 Billion
Federal Government was contributing $3.0 Billion
New Jersey was contibuting $2.7 Billion
New York was contributing $0
The revised cost estimates were $9.7 Billion - $13.7 Billion
The port authority, Federal Government (who has $800 Billion stimulus fund) and New York were not going to contribute any further funding. Their expectation all cost overuns were to be born by New Jersey. Christie was willing to negotiate on how to share in cost overuns and bring down the prices. No other party would step in. The federal govrernment has the greatest ability to fund the project with stimulus money. Christie was doing the taxpayers of NJ a service trying to control uncontrolled spending and hopefully will find a better way to solve this in the future. Perhaps some of that money can be used to fund improved mass transit within New Jersey to keep jobs in NJ.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 27 2010, 9:19 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
I just saw Christie at an ALL YOU CAN EAT BUFFET, and they had to close the place down because it ran out of food!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yawn
I second the "yawn" that Govenor Christie is a fat undisiplined man who has anger issues with our hardworking teachers and has thrown away $400,000 for our children because of his unresolved emotional issues with NJ's teachers union.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Oct 27 2010, 9:02 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: Christie just destroyed the State
Guest wrote:
I just saw Christie at an ALL YOU CAN EAT BUFFET, and they had to close the place down because it ran out of food!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yawn