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[quote="Guest"]I disagree with some of the posts here and don’t believe they are consistent with the available facts. 1) None of us know exactly what happened in the Gates house that night except those that were there. Since their stories vary substantially, it is unfair to assume either version is the completely honest one; neither party is more entitled to a presumption of credibility. Police officers are people like everyone else, some honest, some not, some noble and responsible, some not. Same for Harvard professors. But there are available facts not in dispute between the two parties or are not subject to the interpretation of either party. 2) Gates (and Obama) stated publicly, from day one after the incident that they applauded the person who called the police for being a good, concerned citizen, and that they applauded the police for coming to investigate. Again, there is a strong difference in the stories of what happened in the house, but from the next morning Gates is already publicly on the record as saying he thought it was completely appropriate for the officers to ask to see his ID. So those believing that Gates is declaring racism over being profiled for trying to break into his house or being asked to prove his residence are not observing the available facts. Again, who knows what he did or didn’t say in his house that night, but clearly subsequent to that event his allegations of profiling have been narrowly limited to the officer, not the caller, and have been focused only on the fact that the officer required him to leave his house subsequent to proving his identity and in still arresting him despite having proof of his identity. 3) It is not in dispute that Gates eventually provided his ID and proof of residency at the house BEFORE he was arrested. So regardless of whose version of events you believe, it is a fact that a police officer arrested a person in their own home who was not physically threatening anyone, who was not brandishing any weapon, who was not showing any signs of illegal substance abuse and who has made no actionable declaratives (i.e. “I’m going to kill you” etc.) – none of this is alleged by the police report. Even if you accept entirely the police version of events, it boils down to him being arrested for being verbally abusive to the police in his own home and for not cooperating with their orders to step outside his own home. 4) The charges were dropped hours later, before the media firestorm. Why were they dropped so quickly if the basis for the arrest was solid? Police officers are not supposed to use their positions to “make and example” or “teach a lesson,” so if the arrest was done with the belief that the charges would later be dropped, by definition the police offers acted inappropriately. They had an obligation not to arrest him unless they believed his charges would stick and survive prosecution. The fact that it was so quickly determined by their superiors that the charges should be dropped at least suggests that the cool-headed conclusion behind the scenes (whether by senior police officials or the district attorney’s office is unclear) was that Gates was either inappropriately charged, over-charged or his charges did not have enough supporting evidence to survive prosecution. 5) It is interesting that the woman who called 911 has since said that the police office is lying about his interaction with her too. Her 911 call clearly shows she has zero interest or focus on race and resists attempts by the police force to identify the people on that basis. Yet officer Crowley insists she focused on the people being black when he interviewed her outside before going in to investigate, which she says it never happened. What’s her motivation to lie about it? I don’t know, but am merely pointing out that there are two independent parties directly involved that are questioning the officer’s honestly in recalling the events that night. Now my opinion, based on the available facts not in dispute: Gates almost certainly over-reacted in his anger during the incident. And he probably said some inappropriate things and probably didn’t show the officers, who by his own admission were correct in coming to his house to question him, reasonable respect from the outset That said, the officers absolutely over-reacted in arresting him. They are supposed to be trained not to get emotional and not to overreact, which most private citizens (including Harvard professors) are not. So all things being equal, there is a reasonable greater expectation on the police not to overreact in this situation than Gates. I am not justifying Gates anger or reaction, but it ultimately is immaterial. Since it is not in dispute that the officers knew it was his home before they handcuffed him and arrested him, and since it is not in dispute that there was no threat or physical violence or any other illegal activity involved, to arrest him for being verbally abusive him his own home is outrageous. Put aside your emotional reaction to not like Gates for his overreaction, his quickly throwing out the race card and for his not being respectful – do you really believe it’s appropriate for someone to be arrested for what they say in their own home? I don’t. His arrest was wrong, regardless of what he said. Period. Was it racist? I doubt it. There certainly is no compelling evidence it was racially motivated beyond the obvious circumstantial fact that it is exceptionally rare for ANYONE to be arrested under such circumstances so the fact that it happened to be a black person when there is statistical proof the blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately arrested relative to their proven crime rate. More likely it went down like this: Gates was rude and uncooperative with the officer which made the officer mad. Gates then gets bent out of shape and asks to see the officers ID. The officer feels this is an attempt to take control of the situation from him and refuses to comply until Gates does what he asks and leaves the house. By the time Gates demonstrates his residency everyone is emotionally pumped up and Gates probably says something that puts Officer Crowley over the top and he decides to take control of the situation and teach Gates a lesson by arresting him, figuring it would be dropped later but after Gates is humbled by the process. He’s not doing this because he’s black, he’s doing this because Gates is acting like an A-hole. The problem is, that’s not okay. Once he knew Gates was the resident, he needed to just remove himself from the scene. If Gates was yelling at him, he needed to simply response, “you have a nice day, sir” and walk out. Arresting him was an abuse of power. He obviously didn’t realize it would ignite such a firestorm, but that’s irrelevant. He shouldn’t have done it even if Gates was a nobody. That said, it’s impossible for us to put ourselves in Gates situation and know how he interpreted it. I know many very smart, grounded African-Americas who are absolutely convinced it was racially motivated (and some who aren’t) – not the call or the police coming to investigate, but the fact that he was arrested in his home after proving it was his house. Most Black people in this country have been profiled based on their race during their lives. So their personal experience makes it logical for them to assume when they are being singled out for an unjust action that the motivation is race. That’s completely logical based on their experiences. Even when you read the statements of those Black leaders and opinion makers who are critical of Gates’ reaction, the gist of their position has more to do with their concern that any accusation of race when the virtue of the Black person is not pristine damages the cause of equality. In other words, at the core they are acknowledging racism and saying they only want media attention when the “wrong” is black & white (no pun intended) lest racist America have an excuse for anything other than unequivocal sympathy and support. So Gates hurt their cause not because he was in the wrong but because he was human and contributed to the problem.[/quote]
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Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 4:29 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Being an ASS in your own home is not against the law, nor is showing respect for the authority of the police a legal requirement in this country, especially in your home where you legally have dominion.
yup but being respectful of a policeman who is just doing his job to protect your home and your rights is just common sense to me (do we have to make laws for every idiot who get's himself into trouble like Gates did.
Quote:
If you really believe that any cop would have arrested him you have a very low opinion of law enforcement. I'm not saying it was racist. I'm saying MOST police officers wouldn't have over-reacted to the situation and abused their power by making a bogus arrest no matter how big of an ASS he was being. Once his identity was established, they would have just left as Crowley should have done.
Its not a low opinion of law enforcement, but rather my issue with misplaced blame for creating this situation in the first place still is with Prof Gates - who could have made this who situation turn out different had he used common sense and respect for authority. What happened afterwards became emotional not legal or racist. The spin in the news was unpalatable for me long ago on TV and I have stop watching the news about it. And will get back to commenting on the National HealthCare discussion after this last post.
Everything you said would make sense if this was just an argument that got out of hand. But you say what happened was just emotion and not about what's "legal" but that's where I strongly disagree. Officer Crowley made it about the law when he arrested Gates. Everything prior to that is just an argument and neither of us know what happened. Gates says he was respectful, showed ID early then continued to be harassed by the officer and threatened with jail if he didn’t leave his premises to be questioned after showing his ID. I have no idea if that happened or if he was belligerent, angry and disrespectful from the first moment. But the idea that he unilaterally escalated it is just one of two possible versions of events, neither of which (based on available evidence) has any more proof than the other. But either way, Officer Crowley has a responsibility to adhere to the law not his emotion. When he arrested Gates he was not doing that, regardless of how belligerent Gates may have been. So even if you go with Crowley’s version and assume that Gates did initiate the confrontation, that doesn’t change Crowley’s responsibility to his duty or indemnify him from the consequences of his actions, which were to arrest the man who had been properly ID’ed in his own home. Gates may be an ass and may need anger management, but that doesn’t make Officer Crowley’s actions okay.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 4:19 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Guest wrote:
Quote:
do you really believe it’s appropriate for someone to be arrested for what they say in their own home? I don’t. His arrest was wrong, regardless of what he said. Period.
Good point, and no, not after he was IDed, but I never heard the tape of the events in the house, just each sides story. And dont know how high it was already escalated by the time he was IDed, and at what point. Yes it did get emotional for both men, but again you have to respect the guy holding the gun when it gets this emotional, specially a cop. But I still go back to the original encounter with Gates who just had to remain calm and ID himself to the police. Gates's anger and reaction to the Police (prior to the ID) already set the stage for a worse outcome to this encounter. As a prior poster already notes, this type of stuff happens all the time to the police and I'm sure an arrest happens if you didn't have ID or made it impossible for the police to resolve the situation. They usually bring in the suspect to cool down, and maybe that suspect will respect the police next time as a lesson. Dont we see this on TV all the time?
Also pressure from Washington could be another reason for the charges being dropped and I dont think we will even know the real reason one way or the other.
Not against Obama in general but in this senario I am
also againsts the bailouts, but I do want him to get back to National HealthCare and build a better system.
My main issue was with this "Teaching Moment" and subsequent Beer Summit idea, Gates needed to goto Anger Management training not beerfest on the Whitehouse lawn.
Both sides of the story support that he was arrested AFTER supplying his idea, so if you agree it wasn't correct to arrest him if he had already shown ID then aren't you saying you agree it wasn't appropriate to arrest him? The rest of what you write seems to contradict this basic point. We don't need to know who's version of the story is accurate when both agree on this point.
To say that you think the solution was Gates unilaterally going into anger management suggests that you have accepted the officer's version of events unilaterally. So you aren't interested in sticking to the facts and are taking sides. You say all Gates had to do was ID himself, but according to his version he did, right away and the officer still was aggressive and insisted that he step outside and refused to provide his ID. I don't know what happened, but neither to you. Yet your statements are based on the premise that you do or that you are automatically accepting the officer's version of events.
And if you believe the officer I guess you have to believe that the caller is also lying since she disputes the officers version of events too, and to the best of anyone's knowledge she and Gates don't know each other and hadn't had any contact when she disputed what the officer said. I guess there is a conspiracy to discredit officer Crowley then, the poor honest guy can't catch a break...
And we'll just have to agree to disagree that it is incumbent on citizens and not officers with guns to control themselves, as your argument suggests. Everyone should control themselves but the badge and the gun is not a license to wield arbitrary power, which is what he was doing by remaining in the house after receiving ID and ordering him to leave his house then arresting him when he failed to comply. There is no evidence the charges were dropped due to White House pressure – they were dropped only a few hours after the incident that same night, so the White House probably didn’t even know about it yet.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 2:26 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Guest wrote:
Being an ASS in your own home is not against the law, nor is showing respect for the authority of the police a legal requirement in this country, especially in your home where you legally have dominion.
yup but being respectful of a policeman who is just doing his job to protect your home and your rights is just common sense to me (do we have to make laws for every idiot who get's himself into trouble like Gates did.
Quote:
If you really believe that any cop would have arrested him you have a very low opinion of law enforcement. I'm not saying it was racist. I'm saying MOST police officers wouldn't have over-reacted to the situation and abused their power by making a bogus arrest no matter how big of an ASS he was being. Once his identity was established, they would have just left as Crowley should have done.
Its not a low opinion of law enforcement, but rather my issue with misplaced blame for creating this situation in the first place still is with Prof Gates - who could have made this who situation turn out different had he used common sense and respect for authority. What happened afterwards became emotional not legal or racist. The spin in the news was unpalatable for me long ago on TV and I have stop watching the news about it. And will get back to commenting on the National HealthCare discussion after this last post.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 1:36 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Quote:
do you really believe it’s appropriate for someone to be arrested for what they say in their own home? I don’t. His arrest was wrong, regardless of what he said. Period.
Good point, and no, not after he was IDed, but I never heard the tape of the events in the house, just each sides story. And dont know how high it was already escalated by the time he was IDed, and at what point. Yes it did get emotional for both men, but again you have to respect the guy holding the gun when it gets this emotional, specially a cop. But I still go back to the original encounter with Gates who just had to remain calm and ID himself to the police. Gates's anger and reaction to the Police (prior to the ID) already set the stage for a worse outcome to this encounter. As a prior poster already notes, this type of stuff happens all the time to the police and I'm sure an arrest happens if you didn't have ID or made it impossible for the police to resolve the situation. They usually bring in the suspect to cool down, and maybe that suspect will respect the police next time as a lesson. Dont we see this on TV all the time?
Also pressure from Washington could be another reason for the charges being dropped and I dont think we will even know the real reason one way or the other.
Not against Obama in general but in this senario I am
also againsts the bailouts, but I do want him to get back to National HealthCare and build a better system.
My main issue was with this "Teaching Moment" and subsequent Beer Summit idea, Gates needed to goto Anger Management training not beerfest on the Whitehouse lawn.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 12:36 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Nice try. I bet you will have a different view about cops if you are a person with a darker skin color.
Lame lame lame response
Respect is not limited to a particular skin color and is certainly no excuse to treat a cop abusively either. Do you think Gates set a good example to kids with how he reacted to this simple encounter?
Gates should have known better - This was not a race issue, Gates made it into one because the real reason he was arrested was that he was being an ASS. Even a blind cop would have arrested him because he was an ASS and unrespectful of his authority. The color of skin was not a factor for the cops but was an easy card to play for Gates as an excuse for his bad behavior. His color doesnt excuse his bad behavior to the cops.
And yes I grew up in Passaic went to school in Newark so am sensitive to color playing a role, but this scenario is not one of those situations.
Being an ASS in your own home is not against the law, nor is showing respect for the authority of the police a legal requirement in this country, especially in your home where you legally have dominion.
If you really believe that any cop would have arrested him you have a very low opinion of law enforcement. I'm not saying it was racist. I'm saying MOST police officers wouldn't have over-reacted to the situation and abused their power by making a bogus arrest no matter how big of an ASS he was being. Once his identity was established, they would have just left as Crowley should have done.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 12:32 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
I disagree with some of the posts here and don’t believe they are consistent with the available facts.
1) None of us know exactly what happened in the Gates house that night except those that were there. Since their stories vary substantially, it is unfair to assume either version is the completely honest one; neither party is more entitled to a presumption of credibility. Police officers are people like everyone else, some honest, some not, some noble and responsible, some not. Same for Harvard professors. But there are available facts not in dispute between the two parties or are not subject to the interpretation of either party.
2) Gates (and Obama) stated publicly, from day one after the incident that they applauded the person who called the police for being a good, concerned citizen, and that they applauded the police for coming to investigate. Again, there is a strong difference in the stories of what happened in the house, but from the next morning Gates is already publicly on the record as saying he thought it was completely appropriate for the officers to ask to see his ID. So those believing that Gates is declaring racism over being profiled for trying to break into his house or being asked to prove his residence are not observing the available facts. Again, who knows what he did or didn’t say in his house that night, but clearly subsequent to that event his allegations of profiling have been narrowly limited to the officer, not the caller, and have been focused only on the fact that the officer required him to leave his house subsequent to proving his identity and in still arresting him despite having proof of his identity.
3) It is not in dispute that Gates eventually provided his ID and proof of residency at the house BEFORE he was arrested. So regardless of whose version of events you believe, it is a fact that a police officer arrested a person in their own home who was not physically threatening anyone, who was not brandishing any weapon, who was not showing any signs of illegal substance abuse and who has made no actionable declaratives (i.e. “I’m going to kill you” etc.) – none of this is alleged by the police report. Even if you accept entirely the police version of events, it boils down to him being arrested for being verbally abusive to the police in his own home and for not cooperating with their orders to step outside his own home.
4) The charges were dropped hours later, before the media firestorm. Why were they dropped so quickly if the basis for the arrest was solid? Police officers are not supposed to use their positions to “make and example” or “teach a lesson,” so if the arrest was done with the belief that the charges would later be dropped, by definition the police offers acted inappropriately. They had an obligation not to arrest him unless they believed his charges would stick and survive prosecution. The fact that it was so quickly determined by their superiors that the charges should be dropped at least suggests that the cool-headed conclusion behind the scenes (whether by senior police officials or the district attorney’s office is unclear) was that Gates was either inappropriately charged, over-charged or his charges did not have enough supporting evidence to survive prosecution.
5) It is interesting that the woman who called 911 has since said that the police office is lying about his interaction with her too. Her 911 call clearly shows she has zero interest or focus on race and resists attempts by the police force to identify the people on that basis. Yet officer Crowley insists she focused on the people being black when he interviewed her outside before going in to investigate, which she says it never happened. What’s her motivation to lie about it? I don’t know, but am merely pointing out that there are two independent parties directly involved that are questioning the officer’s honestly in recalling the events that night.
Now my opinion, based on the available facts not in dispute:
Gates almost certainly over-reacted in his anger during the incident. And he probably said some inappropriate things and probably didn’t show the officers, who by his own admission were correct in coming to his house to question him, reasonable respect from the outset
That said, the officers absolutely over-reacted in arresting him. They are supposed to be trained not to get emotional and not to overreact, which most private citizens (including Harvard professors) are not. So all things being equal, there is a reasonable greater expectation on the police not to overreact in this situation than Gates. I am not justifying Gates anger or reaction, but it ultimately is immaterial. Since it is not in dispute that the officers knew it was his home before they handcuffed him and arrested him, and since it is not in dispute that there was no threat or physical violence or any other illegal activity involved, to arrest him for being verbally abusive him his own home is outrageous. Put aside your emotional reaction to not like Gates for his overreaction, his quickly throwing out the race card and for his not being respectful – do you really believe it’s appropriate for someone to be arrested for what they say in their own home? I don’t. His arrest was wrong, regardless of what he said. Period.
Was it racist? I doubt it. There certainly is no compelling evidence it was racially motivated beyond the obvious circumstantial fact that it is exceptionally rare for ANYONE to be arrested under such circumstances so the fact that it happened to be a black person when there is statistical proof the blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately arrested relative to their proven crime rate. More likely it went down like this: Gates was rude and uncooperative with the officer which made the officer mad. Gates then gets bent out of shape and asks to see the officers ID. The officer feels this is an attempt to take control of the situation from him and refuses to comply until Gates does what he asks and leaves the house. By the time Gates demonstrates his residency everyone is emotionally pumped up and Gates probably says something that puts Officer Crowley over the top and he decides to take control of the situation and teach Gates a lesson by arresting him, figuring it would be dropped later but after Gates is humbled by the process. He’s not doing this because he’s black, he’s doing this because Gates is acting like an A-hole. The problem is, that’s not okay. Once he knew Gates was the resident, he needed to just remove himself from the scene. If Gates was yelling at him, he needed to simply response, “you have a nice day, sir” and walk out. Arresting him was an abuse of power. He obviously didn’t realize it would ignite such a firestorm, but that’s irrelevant. He shouldn’t have done it even if Gates was a nobody.
That said, it’s impossible for us to put ourselves in Gates situation and know how he interpreted it. I know many very smart, grounded African-Americas who are absolutely convinced it was racially motivated (and some who aren’t) – not the call or the police coming to investigate, but the fact that he was arrested in his home after proving it was his house. Most Black people in this country have been profiled based on their race during their lives. So their personal experience makes it logical for them to assume when they are being singled out for an unjust action that the motivation is race. That’s completely logical based on their experiences. Even when you read the statements of those Black leaders and opinion makers who are critical of Gates’ reaction, the gist of their position has more to do with their concern that any accusation of race when the virtue of the Black person is not pristine damages the cause of equality. In other words, at the core they are acknowledging racism and saying they only want media attention when the “wrong” is black & white (no pun intended) lest racist America have an excuse for anything other than unequivocal sympathy and support. So Gates hurt their cause not because he was in the wrong but because he was human and contributed to the problem.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 11:11 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
Nice try. I bet you will have a different view about cops if you are a person with a darker skin color.
Lame lame lame response
Respect is not limited to a particular skin color and is certainly no excuse to treat a cop abusively either. Do you think Gates set a good example to kids with how he reacted to this simple encounter?
Gates should have known better - This was not a race issue, Gates made it into one because the real reason he was arrested was that he was being an ASS. Even a blind cop would have arrested him because he was an ASS and unrespectful of his authority. The color of skin was not a factor for the cops but was an easy card to play for Gates as an excuse for his bad behavior. His color doesnt excuse his bad behavior to the cops.
And yes I grew up in Passaic went to school in Newark so am sensitive to color playing a role, but this scenario is not one of those situations.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 11:07 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Look there are good cops and bad cops. A cop is good if s/he can tell a serious situation from a minor one and bear in mind that their job is to protect people, not to harass people they don't like. Cops should not abuse the power people entrust in them. Unfortunately, we are all human and can lose our head in a confrontational situation. Cops should be trained to handle a confrontational situation correctly.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 10:46 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Guest wrote:
Nice try. I bet you will have a different view about cops if you are a person with a darker skin color.
Lame lame lame response
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 10:28 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Nice try. I bet you will have a different view about cops if you are a person with a darker skin color.
Cranbury King
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 10:20 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
I agree with the poster who said that cops were just too arrogant and acted "above the law.". My friends and I are far superior both in intelligence and social status to cops. We do not really need the police.Society would be a much better place without the police. The nerve of that Cambridge officer to respond when someone called 911 to report that someone was breaking into their neighbors house and then to have audacity to ask the individual climbing through a window or breaking in a backdoor to show him Id! Wow! How dare that officer. That is almost as arrogant as the officer who pulled me over for driving 50 MPH on Main Street or the one who had the nerve to actually stop me when i was driving all over the road the other night after having a few beers at my friends house! I heard that there are cops who are arrogant enough to show up at my neighbors house when he was having a heart attack.! I dont know why we pay these arrogant jerks!
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 10:07 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Look this poor old guy walks with a cane. The cop knew that he is the owner, did not like his attitude, so booked him up.
Protecting me? That's the cops' job. Do I have to thank them? No. I paid my tax already. I'll thank cops (or anyone) who earn my respect. I don't blindly respect cops.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 9:59 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Guest wrote:
Arrested at your own home by cops? Cops should be respectful to people (why would they call you Sir) and should have a thicker skin. I don't respect cops (I just don't want to bother with them; let my lawyer deal with them) that much. They are too "above the law" kind of arrogant.
And yet you expect the Cops to protect your propery and your family dont you. Put yourself in the shoes of the cops, who are in unknown location, trying to figure out who the hell the guy is in this house. If you are being a D*CK to the cops when they are just trying to protect your property, then you deserve what you had sown. Its all about common sense and respect for the other person, we use to call that manners.
Same goes if you are being a D*CK at the restaurant to the waitress. If she or one of her friends in the kitchen spits in your food, that naynot be right to do, but IT IS what you had comming to you for picking on the wrong person. Its human nature but could have been avoided (not by the cop or waitress) but by the person who had no respect for the other person. I totally blame Prof Gates for escalating this, and my president for making this into a media frenzy when it shouldnt be. Gate just had to be calm and show his ID to the cops to have ended this farce of a media event, its just that plain and simple. The rest that ensued was a media circus orchestrated to sell more papers and media air. and Gates was the only one who will walk away from this mess smelling like a rose, undeserved.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 7:52 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
Arrested at your own home by cops? Cops should be respectful to people (why would they call you Sir) and should have a thicker skin. I don't respect cops (I just don't want to bother with them; let my lawyer deal with them) that much. They are too "above the law" kind of arrogance.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 7:44 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
As someone who had a similar incident happen in Lawrenceville, I do believe Gates over reacted. I lived in apartment complex and could not get in (left the keys inside), but my sliding door was never locked so I went in that way at night. 10 minutes later the police arrived to ask me questions as someone saw me coming in and thought I might be breaking in. In my situation I simply invited the officers in showed them my wallet and thanked them for coming. There was no issue. They did say that they often get confrontations so they appreciated my help in clarifying the situation.
My belief is that Gates likely over reacted, whether tired from his trip or because of his annoyance. It is very clear that the news outlets over reacted in the need for a story by dragging the caller through the mud. That is independent of anyone else involved.
It is also clear Obama spoke inappropriately. As a Lawyer and especially as a President he should know not to offer a comment unless he has the facts.
In terms of the situation. What if Gates home was being robbed? Would he not want someone to call 911? Would he prefer his home be broken into? When the police came to my apartment the only thing I thought afterward was how lucky I was that people do pay attention and call 911 when they see something odd occurring.
Guest
Posted: Fri, Jul 31 2009, 6:42 am EDT
Post subject: Re: "Teaching Moment" or just a reason to drink beer at the whitehouse
You seems to have a bias towards Gates and Obama.