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[quote="anon-97on"]Wow, this topic has generated a lot of mis-information and partial truths. Full disclosure. I am neutral on the library. Have not donated, do not believe it should be paid for with public money and don't think we need it. But not opposed to private efforts to raise the money and build it by those who favor it. That said: 1) Some of the posters don’t seem to understand how the library funding works. By state law, a minimum portion of our municipal property taxes must go to fund the library. Cranbury consistently has funded, in recent history, with the minimum allowed by law. So for the poster who claimed that it will cost us more taxes for books, etc., that’s simply not true. As it stands, the library has a far larger collection than they even have room to display and the state-mandated minimum funding generates a significant annual surplus. So even if you are against the library in the digital age, Cranbury has no legal choice to withhold the level of funding it currently provides. 2) On the other hand, there were a couple of half-truths by supporters about it all being privately funded. About half of the money they consider to have collected to date toward the new building is actually assuming the use of the surplus they have built up from the annual tax revenues they receive. So it would be partially publically funded, so to speak, but with money that is legally earmarked for the library. Secondly, while there hope is to fully collect private donations, plus additional surplus, to pay for the new library, and while the existing state-mandated funding is enough to cover annual operating costs of the new facility, it’s not clear that the state funding will be enough to permanently maintain the new facility from a capital maintenance and improvement perspective. Do they have enough annual surplus in the operating budget after they open the new building to fund a long term reserve fund to cover future roof repairs, HVAC replacement, etc. 3) Additionally, it’s taken them 4+ years to get about half the money they currently estimate they need for the new building, and that includes a surplus they have been building up for many years before that. It’s a poorly-kept secret that many supporters of the project, who are quick to say it’s being privately funded as a defense against detractors now, fully hope that if they raise sufficient funds they Township will ultimately step in to close the gap. Otherwise it may be another decade or more before they raise enough money unless they secure a “whale” donator. 4) Even if the entire physical library is covered by private donation and the surplus, it’s also another open secret that the project really needs the extension of the parking lot and road to Park Place, as outlined in the Master Plan, to be effective. And that is not contemplated in the fundraising amount. Supporters will say they don’t need it to build the library, despite most of the renderings showing it. But anyone who has spent any time at that parking lot on a school day knows it will be a quagmire without the Park Place extension and additional parking. Their secret expectation is the Township, prompted by the new building, prioritizes that project. All that said, it’s actually a reasonable primary, new library or not. 5) It needs to be understood they only have Concept Drawings at this point in coming up with their $3.xMM cost estimate. Those haven’t been fully drafted or bid. The actual cost could be materially greater. 6) As for the argument about school enrollment, it’s silly to look at the middle school grades and compare to the lower grades as say enrollment is going down. The other poster was correct, the youngest grades enrollment is up from the higher-primary school grades, and those grades are gaining students every year too. All that happened was a predictable halo effect of the housing market recession. When prices went down, empty-nesters stopped selling so fewer young families moved in. Now that housing has started to recover, sales have increased again and enrollment is trending up.[/quote]
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anon-0292
Posted: Tue, Nov 18 2014, 1:54 pm EST
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
2015 Library budget cut $35,000? true of false? why?
anon-97on
Posted: Fri, Oct 10 2014, 11:01 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
There's no point to a vote if the library building and the needed parking/Park Place extension were entirely primely funded. So as worded above makes no sense. The referendum would be if the Tv were contemplating contributing to the cost of construction for the building or to fund the parking and road extension shown in the master plan that is, no matter what some people say, a necessary project should the library be built, just as all the early renderings for it showed until they realized that made its need obvious. So a vote would be do you support the Township raising bond money to contribute to this project.
That said, even with as worded in the previous post, it's yet another excuse to skip a vote by projecting that it wouldn't satisfy those who oppose the project even if they lost. That's a bogus reason not to vote. Someone will always complain about something. But if you are going to involve public taxes in any way now or in the future on this project or related parking, why be afraid of the vote? I don't buy that the reason is you fear winning it.
Yes, this TC is better than the one we had when this issue previously came up when the Bank was being sold. That TV tried to railroad it through, right when our tax base was starting to contract, even freezing out two of the 5 members of their own Committee. The current TC is not like that. But that doesn't mean that something as significant and clearly polarizing as this shouldn't be subject to a referendum.
anon-921r
Posted: Fri, Oct 10 2014, 5:23 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
Anon-023r wrote:
Pay the bill like everyone else
So if a referendum is had and supporters win those complaining will no longer complain?
I seem to think if a referendum is had as follows, "do you support the library raising money and building a library through those donations?" That the library will get more support than those opposing it. So I am not sure why those in opposition would want a vote.
I'd prefer for the TC to set forth restrictions such as if it takes 3 mill to build the library will need a reserve of 20% set aside for future issues, that the donations must be in hand prior to the building, that the maintenance be supported by donations and whatever tax revenue is already dedicated, etc...I'd also like to see this in a binding contract so future elected officials can't change it.
I trust this TC, I have not always trusted other TCs and likely will not trust some future TCs. This one over the last few years actually doesn't vote 5-0 all the time which keeps a balance.
Anon-023r
Posted: Fri, Oct 10 2014, 6:19 am EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
Pay the bill like everyone else
anon-921r
Posted: Thu, Oct 9 2014, 10:00 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
willofthepeeps-534r wrote:
Let the people vote yea or nay. Why are these supporters such Bolsheviks?
What if the library supporters win? Then what will you do?
willofthepeeps-534r
Posted: Thu, Oct 9 2014, 9:31 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
Let the people vote yea or nay. Why are these supporters such Bolsheviks?
anon-ppq3
Posted: Thu, Oct 9 2014, 8:25 am EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
Cranbury Public Library pays rent to the school - about $54,000.00
About $30,000.00 of this is for the "Blackseal Custodian" who must be on site when the building is open and the school is not. The remainder is heating, cooling, etc. Information was given at the Q&A.
anon-97on
Posted: Thu, Oct 9 2014, 7:45 am EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
The $30 per person is a hypothetical number, not a real one. In reality taxes are relative and dynamic. That number represents the annual payment on a bond if everyone paid average taxes and the tax base never changed. In reality the tax base changes every year and has shrunk for the last 7 years in a row. As it shrinks everyone has to pay more for the same budgetary figure. Some people would be paying many times that number, whether they supported the library or not.
Let's be clear that this would be paid for by having he Township take out new debt. We'd be whipping out our municipal bond credit card and that $30 hypothetical figure is us making minimum payments on it for decades.
On top of this would be the payments for the bonds to dredge the lake, build the parking and Park Place extension to service the library which is not included in their budget and to honor the Township's previous commitment to complete the Liberty Way extension and bridge among other projects.
Someone above asked why this is not put to a vote of residents. That suggestion has been put forward over and over every time this issue has come up but supports have always resisted it. Why?
Anon-023r
Posted: Thu, Oct 9 2014, 6:52 am EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
Expensive, unnecessary, capital projects.
anon-pq18
Posted: Wed, Oct 8 2014, 11:29 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
Anon-023r wrote:
If the mistake of building this is made, it will be "easy" payments of $30. Never ending payments that is. Aren't we still paying for the bridge to nowhere? Watch your wallets people!
What is this bridge to nowhere you are speaking of?
Anon-023r
Posted: Wed, Oct 8 2014, 11:14 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
If the mistake of building this is made, it will be "easy" payments of $30. Never ending payments that is. Aren't we still paying for the bridge to nowhere? Watch your wallets people!
Reason #32-052s
Posted: Wed, Oct 8 2014, 6:53 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
anon-ppq3 wrote:
At the Library Q&A we learned that to fund the remaining 1.4 million to build the building would cost $30.00 extra in taxes. The school budget often goes up hundreds of dollars each year in taxes.
The person who is posting $1000.00 extra in taxes is misinformed.
In any case, the library is committed to raising the money through the foundation so no increase in taxes. They had displays demonstrating how the rent that is paid to the school will cover the operating costs of the building. Also, the school doesn't money because the rent covers the extra costs to keep the library in the building, and they would gain security and space.
Reason #32: Assuming you accept all of the library board's assumptions about the costs to build, furnish, operate and maintain a new library (and why wouldn't you?), and the magic math that says it somehow won't affect the school to lose $60,000 in rent, then it's not $1,000 per household, it's only 30 easy payments of $33.33. All in favor, write a check!
(Do I get a free set of steak knives if I order now?)
anon-4298
Posted: Wed, Oct 8 2014, 2:47 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
anon-ppq3 wrote:
At the Library Q&A we learned that to fund the remaining 1.4 million to build the building would cost $30.00 extra in taxes. The school budget often goes up hundreds of dollars each year in taxes.
The person who is posting $1000.00 extra in taxes is misinformed.
In any case, the library is committed to raising the money through the foundation so no increase in taxes. They had displays demonstrating how the rent that is paid to the school will cover the operating costs of the building. Also, the school doesn't money because the rent covers the extra costs to keep the library in the building, and they would gain security and space.
Let's assume the school stayed flat with rent. No idea if they do, but my guess is they would rarely check expenses given they went decades without rent.
If we assume 3% inflation then how many years is it before the cost of rent to is exceeded by expenses. Are we talking decades in which case the library argument holds water or are we talking 2 years which would mean that expenses would exceed rent by the time the building is built.
anon-ppq3
Posted: Wed, Oct 8 2014, 2:00 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
Excuse me:
Quote:
In any case, the library is committed to raising the money through the foundation so no increase in taxes. They had displays demonstrating how the rent that is paid to the school will cover the operating costs of the building. Also, the school doesn't money because the rent covers the extra costs to keep the library in the building, and they would gain security and space.
meant to say ...the school doesn't lose out on money because the rent covers the extra costs to keep the public library in the school building...
anon-ppq3
Posted: Wed, Oct 8 2014, 1:19 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
At the Library Q&A we learned that to fund the remaining 1.4 million to build the building would cost $30.00 extra in taxes. The school budget often goes up hundreds of dollars each year in taxes.
The person who is posting $1000.00 extra in taxes is misinformed.
In any case, the library is committed to raising the money through the foundation so no increase in taxes. They had displays demonstrating how the rent that is paid to the school will cover the operating costs of the building. Also, the school doesn't money because the rent covers the extra costs to keep the library in the building, and they would gain security and space.
Anon-p998
Posted: Wed, Oct 8 2014, 6:10 am EDT
Post subject: Re: The new library smear campaign
Excellent idea. Please present that on Thursday night.