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[quote="Guest"][quote="Scott"]I believe when Audrey states a gift to Cranbury she is not talking the money, but the barn itself as being a gift to Cranbury.[/quote] In other words it would be a gift FROM the taxpayes to the Township. Ok. I'm still neutral on this myself. If the money had not come specifically from an agreement and technicality regarding the Historical Society I would be negative. If this was money was supposed to be controlled by the Historical Society and came from the proceeds of a sale that did not involve any taxpayer money to begin with, ok. That said, I continue to not see the value in just literring up that tiny lot off of Cranbury Neck with seemingly random barns, that then have to be maintained in perpetiuty. What do we do with them? Are their tours? Are they open to the public? Or is it just a barn graveyard? I think it would be much more interesting to sell it, cheaply, to a private citizen in Cranbury with land, with the provision that makes it hsitorically protected. Let them fix it it up and lovingly maintain it for some new purpose and it remains in its historic Township but is actually of continued value and is maintained at no expense to the Township. This still preserves it.[/quote]
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Guest
Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2009, 3:30 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
The Historical Society is paying for all work the $40,500 will be used toward the project costs, but the society will be responsible for all costs. I understand that the Society will be making a statement tonight.
guest1000
Posted: Mon, Aug 24 2009, 3:18 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
If the NJ Barn Company is set to reconstruct just the bones of the barn for $40,500, then who will finish it? Will there be a public Request For Quote? and how much more does the architect cost?
Guest
Posted: Wed, Aug 5 2009, 11:04 am EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Great. It sounds fine to me. It is money that belonged to the Historical Society funding it and they agree to pay for all future upkeep. Let's just get it on the public record or whatever else is necessary to commit to that plan and call it a day...
Guest
Posted: Wed, Aug 5 2009, 10:54 am EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
The history center is town owned and the Society maintains the building.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Aug 5 2009, 8:48 am EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:
I think its fair to detail the plan for this barn in this park rather than just ask people to trust the details are under control, just as we were asked to for the Babe Ruth ballpark.
Yes, it is fair. But the analogy is wrong. The funds for the park were tax payer funds (county and town) still our tax money. The field was built by the town and the town is/was liable for over runs.
The Society is using their funds to rebuild the barn. They are responsible for over runs, they own the project.
Lastly, it was clear the ballpark was going through and the only support for it was from a few little league parents. No details were ever provided and the closest explanation came a couple of weeks ago, when the history was provided but ended in 2007.
There is a huge difference in where funds come from and who has project ownership.
So you are saying that the Historical Society is responsible for all overruns and the ongoing costs to maintain it in perpetuity? So when it needs upkeep expense to keep from falling down every few years they will pay, not the Township? No offense, but I think its reasonable to see this on the public record in writing as a binding agreement. If that is not the case then the analogy is perfectly correct.
Guest
Posted: Wed, Aug 5 2009, 7:01 am EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Guest wrote:
I think its fair to detail the plan for this barn in this park rather than just ask people to trust the details are under control, just as we were asked to for the Babe Ruth ballpark.
Yes, it is fair. But the analogy is wrong. The funds for the park were tax payer funds (county and town) still our tax money. The field was built by the town and the town is/was liable for over runs.
The Society is using their funds to rebuild the barn. They are responsible for over runs, they own the project.
Lastly, it was clear the ballpark was going through and the only support for it was from a few little league parents. No details were ever provided and the closest explanation came a couple of weeks ago, when the history was provided but ended in 2007.
There is a huge difference in where funds come from and who has project ownership.
Audrey
Posted: Tue, Aug 4 2009, 11:07 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Here is some additional clarification of the proposed Barn Project. The NJ Barn Company dismantled the barn from the Haworth property. At that time, the township paid a payment of $24,000 toward the purchase of the barn. The money that was used for the payment was from the $75,000 the Township received from the sale of the Holland House, leaving a balance of $51,000 left from the sale. The barn has been in storage with the NJ Barn Company for a few years at a cost of $225 per month. The balance of the money owed to the NJ Barn Company for repairing, moving the barn timbers to Cranbury and putting them up is $40,500. The foundation, siding, and roofing will be paid for with Society preservation funds and grant funds. The value to Cranbury is that we will have a reconstruction of a 1770 barn and an agricultural museum highlighting the importance of farming to Cranbury's history.
Scott
Posted: Mon, Aug 3 2009, 5:37 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
I think I did a good job explaining the facts of the situation although admittedly I did not realize Howarth barn and Holland house were on different properties. The facts however about relationship are correct. However, anyone is able to go to the town office and clarify my comments.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Aug 3 2009, 4:38 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Again, if the above is the case, I agree. It was the previous poster who said it was a gift in the non-monetary sense. If it is the Historical Societies money, then it is a gift in the money sense. It would just be nice to see the unequivical story laid out. Contrary to an above posters assertion, most people in Town do not know the details. And most people here on this board are not hostile to the project, just asking for more details not only baout its history as a project but what it will be used for. It is not "just like" any other park -- most other parks have functions and specific uses to the community. I think its fair to detail the plan for this barn in this park rather than just ask people to trust the details are under control, just as we were asked to for the Babe Ruth ballpark.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Aug 3 2009, 4:22 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Guest wrote:
Scott wrote:
I believe when Audrey states a gift to Cranbury she is not talking the money, but the barn itself as being a gift to Cranbury.
In other words it would be a gift FROM the taxpayes to the Township.
No, it would be a gift from the Historical Society to the town and to the residents. The proceeds from the Holland house were to go to the historical society not the town, but for a mistake by Audi we would not have this conversation today. So by the TC giving the money back to the historical society there is no impact, it's a neutral move unless people consider money that never should have been the town's in the first place town money.
However, maintaining the barn in storage and not allowing the society to rebuild it is costing tax payers 2,500 a year.
The barnpark is just like any other park. People can come and visit walk around etc...The barn if rebuilt will hopefully have some farm equipment and other items in to serve as a musuem of sorts for Cranbury's agriculture at least that is one proposed purpose.
My view is that the house was deeded to Town by mistake. They never should have had the house or proceeds from it. So by them taking it now it seems a bit underhanded. If it were the society asking for more money or asking for 40k to do a project it would be different.
But, if you overpay taxes you want a refund you don't want the town to say too bad you made a mistake and we're keeping the money. Same thing applies here. A mistake was made where the town received funds from a sale that they never should have been involved in. They did the right thing and said the money will go to the rightful group the society. However, now some are saying too bad about the mistake, but the town should keep the money.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Aug 3 2009, 1:32 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Guest wrote:
Honestly, with the exception of Audrey did everyone on this forum move to Cranbury in the last two weeks? The decision to purchase and restore the barn was made five or so years ago. It wasn't done under the cover of darkness. It was in the paper. There were lengthy discussions about it. There were long public discussions on where to put it. Various organizations in Cranbury were consulted,(i.e. the Lions club, the historical society). The time to have raised your voice against this and or suggest alternatives was then. I really don't care one way or another, I just can't believe the complete lack of any knowledge of decisions made more than 6 months ago.
That's great and all. but why not use your extensive knowledge of the history of the issue to actually address some of the questions raised. How will the barn be used for example once it is put up on the lot? Or is it just a decoration?
Guest
Posted: Mon, Aug 3 2009, 12:05 pm EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Honestly, with the exception of Audrey did everyone on this forum move to Cranbury in the last two weeks? The decision to purchase and restore the barn was made five or so years ago. It wasn't done under the cover of darkness. It was in the paper. There were lengthy discussions about it. There were long public discussions on where to put it. Various organizations in Cranbury were consulted,(i.e. the Lions club, the historical society). The time to have raised your voice against this and or suggest alternatives was then. I really don't care one way or another, I just can't believe the complete lack of any knowledge of decisions made more than 6 months ago.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Aug 3 2009, 11:18 am EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Scott wrote:
I believe when Audrey states a gift to Cranbury she is not talking the money, but the barn itself as being a gift to Cranbury.
In other words it would be a gift FROM the taxpayes to the Township.
Ok. I'm still neutral on this myself. If the money had not come specifically from an agreement and technicality regarding the Historical Society I would be negative. If this was money was supposed to be controlled by the Historical Society and came from the proceeds of a sale that did not involve any taxpayer money to begin with, ok.
That said, I continue to not see the value in just literring up that tiny lot off of Cranbury Neck with seemingly random barns, that then have to be maintained in perpetiuty. What do we do with them? Are their tours? Are they open to the public? Or is it just a barn graveyard?
I think it would be much more interesting to sell it, cheaply, to a private citizen in Cranbury with land, with the provision that makes it hsitorically protected. Let them fix it it up and lovingly maintain it for some new purpose and it remains in its historic Township but is actually of continued value and is maintained at no expense to the Township. This still preserves it.
Scott
Posted: Mon, Aug 3 2009, 9:28 am EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
After I posted, I was corrected in discussions that it is the Howarth barn. The money from the Holland house sale was to go to the historical society as per the ordinance. The Society was going to use the money from the sale to renovate the Howarth barn. I messed up in listening. I assumed the Howarth and Holland were on the same property and that is my error, I did not realize they were on separate areas of land.
The above explanation I laid out though is still accurate, just that they were going to use money from the sale to repair the barn. It's still an ethics question and a technical question. Ethics being does the town uphold their agreement and technical because the town put it into surplus and thus it became tax payer money does that mean we should as a town keep it.
Honestly, I don't see a value (sorry), but I do see an ethical committment to be upheld and if the society wants to repair the barn with their money then I am not opposed since it does not affect me one way or the other.
I believe when Audrey states a gift to Cranbury she is not talking the money, but the barn itself as being a gift to Cranbury.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Aug 3 2009, 8:17 am EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Audrey Smith wrote:
The barn, c1770, was the Howarth barn. It was the barn for the first church parsonage on what is now Symmes Court and is thought to be the oldest barn in Cranbury. The township would be taking the $40,500 from surplus that was realized from the sale of the Holland House and not from Cranbury taxpayers. It is a worthwhile project and should be considered a gift to Cranbury.
Why would it be a "gift" if it is coming from surplus taxpayer money? Not being critical, just trying to understand.
And I'm also confused now because above there is a detailed explanation of the barn history but it was all based on the barn being from the Holland property which is now appears not to be. So just to be clear, is the $40,500 surprlus from the Holland sale involve money the Township originally paid in any way or is it all money that belonged to the Historical Society?
Thanks.
Guest
Posted: Mon, Aug 3 2009, 7:24 am EDT
Post subject: Re: $40,500 for Barn Restoration Project
Did the township pay the original price of the barn to the Howarths?