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JD Guest
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Posted: Thu, Oct 22 2009, 8:57 pm EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Guest wrote: | JD wrote: | Guest wrote: |
The current Democrats on the TC are so wrapped up with their state political machine that they actually approved last year when last's year's Democrat TC candidate (who lost to Win) suggested they thank Linda on the official town record for her help with COAH. This was just after she failed to vote against it. And they failed to note Baroni at all, who did vote against it. Clearly they have more than their own township at heart when they do this. |
The above statements are inconsistent with the events that I witnessed. At meetings I attended, several TC members publicly expressed a great deal of outrage and frustration with state-level democrats, specifically D'Angelo (and of course Roberts), and Baroni was publicly praised for his support of our town's best interests.
There are plenty of great reasons to support Dan and Jay. Among other reasons, Dan and Jay have been to countless meetings to learn about the issues and stand up for the interests of residents. They have knocked on almost every door in Cranbury. They are endorsed by Senator Baroni, our most vocal advocate at the state level. Dan and Jay are smart, capable candidates with a command of the issues and commitment to do the right thing.
I sincerely hope that residents choose candidates based on their own merits and not based on fabricated, exagerated and/or misleading statements from anonymous sources.
JD |
Then maybe this will refresh your memory:
http://cranbury.info/viewtopic.php?t=2782&highlight=ritter+greenstein
It is a matter of public record (minutes of the Township Committee meeting) that Committee Member Stannard "applauded Assemblywoman Greenstein for abstaining in support of Cranbury Township” (these are the exact words from the minutes.
So actually the previous poster understated the issue because they incorrectly attributed the remark to the Democratic committee candidate when it actually was a still sitting Democrat member of the Township Committee.
It seems like you owe the previous poster an apology for characterizing their remarks as “fabricated, exaggerated and/or misleading” when they are clearly supported by the public record. |
I stand by my statements.
The record shows that the previous poster's comments were inaccurate and misleading. Furthermore, Democratic TC members have expressed outrage about COAH and applauded Baroni publicly on several occassions. To suggest it is "clear" that democrats on the TC aren't concerned about the impact of COAH on Cranbury is misleading and innaccurate. I think it is a shame when people use this forum to make anonymous exagerated and/or inaccurate accusations. I hope all the candidates stand against this kind of negativity and continue to focus on their own merits.
In short, I won't apologize for being right and I'm not going to waste any more time in a "blissing" contest with someone who doesn't have the courage to put their name to their salvos. Feel free to call me if you want to discuss further. We are neighbors, I'm sure we can work it out.
Dave Mauger (609) 655-4799 |
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Jersey Whig Guest
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Posted: Fri, Oct 23 2009, 8:29 am EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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The candidate who will truly represent the citizens of the 14th District was not asked to attend this debate. He does not have $600,000.00 propaganda machines behind him. Gene is mounting a significant challenge for State Assembly in the 14th District. Gene is a leader with no party lines to walk. I ask you to strongly consider voting for The Modern Whig candidate Gene Baldassari. For more information on Gene visit www.votegene.com |
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Guest
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Posted: Fri, Oct 23 2009, 9:14 am EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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JD wrote: | Guest wrote: | JD wrote: | Guest wrote: |
The current Democrats on the TC are so wrapped up with their state political machine that they actually approved last year when last's year's Democrat TC candidate (who lost to Win) suggested they thank Linda on the official town record for her help with COAH. This was just after she failed to vote against it. And they failed to note Baroni at all, who did vote against it. Clearly they have more than their own township at heart when they do this. |
The above statements are inconsistent with the events that I witnessed. At meetings I attended, several TC members publicly expressed a great deal of outrage and frustration with state-level democrats, specifically D'Angelo (and of course Roberts), and Baroni was publicly praised for his support of our town's best interests.
There are plenty of great reasons to support Dan and Jay. Among other reasons, Dan and Jay have been to countless meetings to learn about the issues and stand up for the interests of residents. They have knocked on almost every door in Cranbury. They are endorsed by Senator Baroni, our most vocal advocate at the state level. Dan and Jay are smart, capable candidates with a command of the issues and commitment to do the right thing.
I sincerely hope that residents choose candidates based on their own merits and not based on fabricated, exagerated and/or misleading statements from anonymous sources.
JD |
Then maybe this will refresh your memory:
http://cranbury.info/viewtopic.php?t=2782&highlight=ritter+greenstein
It is a matter of public record (minutes of the Township Committee meeting) that Committee Member Stannard "applauded Assemblywoman Greenstein for abstaining in support of Cranbury Township” (these are the exact words from the minutes.
So actually the previous poster understated the issue because they incorrectly attributed the remark to the Democratic committee candidate when it actually was a still sitting Democrat member of the Township Committee.
It seems like you owe the previous poster an apology for characterizing their remarks as “fabricated, exaggerated and/or misleading” when they are clearly supported by the public record. |
I stand by my statements.
The record shows that the previous poster's comments were inaccurate and misleading. Furthermore, Democratic TC members have expressed outrage about COAH and applauded Baroni publicly on several occassions. To suggest it is "clear" that democrats on the TC aren't concerned about the impact of COAH on Cranbury is misleading and innaccurate. I think it is a shame when people use this forum to make anonymous exagerated and/or inaccurate accusations. I hope all the candidates stand against this kind of negativity and continue to focus on their own merits.
In short, I won't apologize for being right and I'm not going to waste any more time in a "blissing" contest with someone who doesn't have the courage to put their name to their salvos. Feel free to call me if you want to discuss further. We are neighbors, I'm sure we can work it out.
Dave Mauger (609) 655-4799 |
You are the one making inaccurate and misleading statements and the record proves it. Here is the exact quote that you were replying to, as your own post shows above. Remember, you selected it:
"The current Democrats on the TC are so wrapped up with their state political machine that they actually approved last year when last's year's Democrat TC candidate (who lost to Win) suggested they thank Linda on the official town record for her help with COAH. This was just after she failed to vote against it. And they failed to note Baroni at all, who did vote against it. Clearly they have more than their own township at heart when they do this."
This quote clearly refers to "current Democrats on the TC" and makes no reference to this year's candidates for the Township Committee. The only thing that was inaccurate was it attributed the applauding at the meeting to last's year's candidate rather than a current Democrat Committee member and that was subsequently corrected. This certainly isn't misleading since the point of the rest of the post was the question the motivation of the current Democrat Committee members and the fact that the quote came directly from one only makes the original post even more credible.
The posters said absolutely nothing about the current candidates for the Township Committee, either Democrats or Republicans and made no suggestion that they have applauded Greenstein or are not concerned about COAH. So that is inaccurate and misleading for you to suggest. Then you further attribute the poster as saying that the current members on the TC are not concerned about COAH but yet again that was not in the original statement. Read the quote, the one you picked. They are only saying that the current Democrats on the Committee were willing to laud Assemblywoman Greenstein for taking a position on the COAH bill that was contrary to the interests of Cranbury Township and that to have done so demonstrates they were motivated by something other than the interests of Cranbury at the time. That seems pretty straight forward and is supported by the public record. Whereas your criticism of the poster is repeatedly not even supported by the quote you replied to.
I personally am happy to see a very competitive field of candidates this year from both parties. But it just doesn’t help when people feel the need to distort the record as you have done. I leave it to others to decide for themselves who is being inaccurate and misleading. The public record and the exact wording of the posts here speak for themselves. |
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Guest
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Posted: Fri, Oct 23 2009, 10:36 am EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Dave has enough guts to put his name next to his statement. If you want to call someone a liar have the guts to put your name out there. |
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Guest
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Posted: Fri, Oct 23 2009, 1:00 pm EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Guest wrote: | Dave has enough guts to put his name next to his statement. If you want to call someone a liar have the guts to put your name out there. |
Balloon Boy dad used his own name too. Didn't make his stoyr true. |
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Guest
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Posted: Fri, Oct 23 2009, 1:13 pm EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Guest wrote: | Guest wrote: | Dave has enough guts to put his name next to his statement. If you want to call someone a liar have the guts to put your name out there. |
Balloon Boy dad used his own name too. Didn't make his stoyr true. |
crickets |
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Guest
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Posted: Fri, Oct 23 2009, 1:32 pm EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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People, stop it. This thread is downgrading and is important to all of us as a town. We need change at all levels and we don't need to downgrade an important thread with bickering. |
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wcody
Joined: Tue, Mar 18 2008, 9:49 am EDT Posts: 126 Location: Cranbury, NJ
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Posted: Fri, Oct 23 2009, 5:57 pm EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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There has been concern regarding Greenstein & D’Angelo position on COAH after their respective abstention and affirmation of the COAH A500 legislation last year. It is interesting that Greenstein claims she did this to continue to have input on the issue (as well as how she equates abstain to no). It has been well over one year and what has she done? It is clear that legislation is needed to fix the affordable housing program. New Jersey legislature keeps a good record of pending bills, their status and who is primary sponsor.
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bills/BillsBySponsor.asp
She has been primary sponsor for many bills during the past 2 year legislative session but I could find only one bill regarding COAH. A4128, which was introduced by Greenstein and D’Angelo on 6/22/09, reduces the job counts for warehouses, which is good. This bill is identical to S2460 which Bill Baroni introduced over 5 months earlier on 1/13/09. Why wait 5 months after Baroni took the initiative? At least it was introduced. Bills need to get introduced either at the Senate or Assembly then will get carried over to the other body later. Both of these bills were sent over committee for review where they still sit.
Besides COAH, this debate brought out several other issues that were already pointed out by previous “guests”.
Where did Greenstein and D’Angelo get over $600,000 in funds, which is more than 20X as much as Calabro and Harvey. Was this from local residents or did it come from the Democratic machine, PAC’s, etc. It would be great if they publically disclosed the source of the funding prior to the election. What strings are attached to this money? Last campaign was Clean & Fair and it went well but that initiative was killed by the Democrats last year.
The other concerning point was Greenstein’s new found support of regionalization. Baroni has stated Cranbury should not be consolidated. Corzine wants to consolidate small towns like Cranbury. There are only two small towns in Greenstein’s district. Where does she stand on consolidation of Cranbury?
I was also surprised to see Greenstein and D’Angelo defend Corizine’s record on taxes.
I do want to make one correction, I have seen Wayne D’Angelo in Cranbury. He along with Linda Greenstein and Bill Baroni came to the Helene Cody Cranbury 5K. Our family appreciated their support.
Of course, as a township committee member, I will try to work with whoever is elected, but for the future of Cranbury, we need a change in Trenton. I encourage all residents to vote for Rob Calabro and Bill Harvey for Assembly. Also, we need a change in Governor as well so I encourage voting for Chris Christie who has the best chance of winning and bringing the needed reforms in Trenton.
Win Cody |
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JD Guest
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Posted: Sat, Oct 24 2009, 8:48 am EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Win,
I appreciate your comments and echo your concerns for Cranbury. I would add to that the outcome of this year's Gubernatorial election is even more critical to Cranbury because of the profound impact it will have on the the Court for years to come.
JD |
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Guest
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Posted: Sat, Oct 24 2009, 10:46 am EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Honest question - Can anyone tell me where to find any information on how Christie expects to make good on his promises? I certainly don't want to vote for Corzine, but feel as if Christie's making promises that are completely impossible to keep. Thanks! |
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Guest
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Posted: Sat, Oct 24 2009, 1:04 pm EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Here is what I think. Corzine, Wayne or Linda get in we as a town are done. If you vote Dagget it's a vote for Corzine because Dagget has no chance. So you need to vote Christie if you don't want to lose our town.
For TC, we need to vote Mulligan and Taylor. Not one or the other because we'll cancel votes out then and they will lose. They offered ideas, solutions and understand the finances. Jay's family has been here since the 40's. Dan's since the 70's. They understand history and understand the need to stand up. If they lose then Win will be a minority again and we'll see David back as Mayor with no change from the last years. We all say we want change. Now is the time from state to local to do this change and protect our town. |
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Jersey Whig Guest
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Posted: Sat, Oct 24 2009, 2:49 pm EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Every election year I hear people saying we need change and then they go out and vote for Democrats or Republicans. Both these parties share the blame for the mess we have on our hands.
If you elect one party the other party fights every move they make. They will vote against something good for the citizens just to disagree with the other party. Its a game Democrats and Republicans play at our expense. All they care about is power.
If you really want change look outside these two parties, That's where you'll find leadership.
Trust me when I tell you if you keep electing politicians you’ll get exactly what you deserve. You’ll get more of a mess and in 2 years you’ll be rewarded with hearing your favorite politician telling you he has a plan to fix it.
New Jersey is desperately in need of leaders. Take a good look at all independent and third party candidates before making your selection. |
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JD Guest
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Posted: Sat, Oct 24 2009, 2:55 pm EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Guest wrote: | Honest question - Can anyone tell me where to find any information on how Christie expects to make good on his promises? I certainly don't want to vote for Corzine, but feel as if Christie's making promises that are completely impossible to keep. Thanks! |
Honest answer:
Christie has not revealed a detailed plan.
Corzine's plan calls for the destruction of Cranbury- Massive COAH obligation, eliminating K-8 school districts and consolidating towns with less than 5,000 people.
You make the call! |
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Guest
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Posted: Sat, Oct 24 2009, 9:00 pm EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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I'm a Democrat, but as others have posted here a vote for Corzine is effectively a vote against Cranbury. Corzine is on the record as promoting legislation that would force our Blue Ribbon school system to be consolidated into other districts and legslation that would basically force smaller townships like ours, even in cases like Cranbury where we have been successful in outsourcing most of our services to other municipalities, to merge into larger towns.
If you live in Cranbury and don't mind us becoming part of Monroe or South Brunswick, fine, vote for Corzine. Otherwise, what are you thinking. You could hate virtually everything Christie stands for and he'sd still be a better choice. You don't have to believe in change or believe Christie is anything but another slick politician that can't be trusted. But you can still be certain, because it is a hallmark of the NJ Republican parties position, that he is not in favor of merging our Township out of existence like Corzine. |
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JD Guest
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Posted: Sun, Oct 25 2009, 3:26 am EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Guest wrote: |
The current Democrats on the TC are so wrapped up with their state political machine that they actually approved last year when last's year's Democrat TC candidate (who lost to Win) suggested they thank Linda on the official town record for her help with COAH. This was just after she failed to vote against it. And they failed to note Baroni at all, who did vote against it. Clearly they have more than their own township at heart when they do this. |
Among other inconsistencies, the record you supplied does not show that any other TC members (or candidates) approved when Stannard applauded Greenstein for breaking ranks with Roberts and "abstaining in support of Cranbury." To say "they approved" is not reflected in the record.
Instead, Stout called COAH a "morass" and "They" approved of a resolution in opposition of A 500 at the meeting referenced in the record you provided.
Your record shows no supporting evidence for the claims that "they" are "wrapped up with their state political machine" or that "Clearly they have more than their own township at heart"? Those are strong allegations to make without an explanation.
Instead of lobbing unsupported anonymous salvos, I suggest stating your case in an eloquent, respectful way, as Win Cody did earlier today.
JD |
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Guest
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Posted: Sun, Oct 25 2009, 8:58 am EDT Post subject: Re: In debate, GOP slams Greenstein for abstention on affordable housing vote |
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Hadn't you two been asked to move on? Determined to get the last word in? |
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