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Guest
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 Posted: Wed, Mar 24 2010, 11:29 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Just out of curiosity. How many of you work at places that hire kids out of college at 60 thou a year. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 8:01 am EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | If teachers or other members of public worker unions(ie cops) are so overpaid how many of them live in Cranbury? Just curious. |
My wife holds a masters degree and works in a field she loves in a non-profit. She makes a lot less than the teachers in Cranbury even ones just starting and only gets 2 weeks off. However, we don't complain because she loves her job and we're fortunate enough where she can do what she loves. I only say this because we have to realize there are plenty of jobs in the private sector that pay a lot less and don't get as good benefits. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 8:58 am EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | If teachers or other members of public worker unions(ie cops) are so overpaid how many of them live in Cranbury? Just curious. |
My wife holds a masters degree and works in a field she loves in a non-profit. She makes a lot less than the teachers in Cranbury even ones just starting and only gets 2 weeks off. However, we don't complain because she loves her job and we're fortunate enough where she can do what she loves. I only say this because we have to realize there are plenty of jobs in the private sector that pay a lot less and don't get as good benefits. |
Plus in the private sector you work "At Will". While teachers have this thing called tenure which just about guarantees them a job for life. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 9:14 am EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| What type of private employee are you comparing police, fire, and teachers to? The atomsphere of public servant bashing is uncivilized. Some of it is warranted but a lot of it, especially what is propigated by 1015 is not fair,balanced, or entirely truthful. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 10:28 am EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | Just out of curiosity. How many of you work at places that hire kids out of college at 60 thou a year. |
Plenty, actually, at least in NYC, LA, SF and Boston. We pay first job EA's $48K with absolutely no experience to do a job radically less important where I work. And those who had family connections to get summer internships at investment banks during their undergrad years can start right out of school with a BA as an associate in M&A or Strategic Planning making twice that.
But what's the point of the question? Most public teachers don't make $60K just out of college. Where did you get that fantasy? That's not what the chart on the previous page shows. That is the average wage for all teachers in the state. So the more appropriate question is, how many kids who graduated with undergrad then sought extra advanced degrees or certifications (like teachers do) average only $60K in their entire multi-decade work history? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 10:34 am EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | If teachers or other members of public worker unions(ie cops) are so overpaid how many of them live in Cranbury? Just curious. |
My wife holds a masters degree and works in a field she loves in a non-profit. She makes a lot less than the teachers in Cranbury even ones just starting and only gets 2 weeks off. However, we don't complain because she loves her job and we're fortunate enough where she can do what she loves. I only say this because we have to realize there are plenty of jobs in the private sector that pay a lot less and don't get as good benefits. |
Plus in the private sector you work "At Will". While teachers have this thing called tenure which just about guarantees them a job for life. |
Not every teacher has tenure and many, many public sector jobs are not at will. Many people have contracts and many others are Unionized as well and have proections comparable to teachers.
That said, I am not a fan of tenure or unions. I just think the generalization is grossly unfair.
Overall teachers are very underpaid for their importance to society. Train conducters can make substantially more than they do, and have even more job protection and better benefits. There may be other jobs that require an education and pay low as well but that doesn't justify it.
What we need is to pay teacher more, recruit talent that isn't teaching right now because they see how screwed up the system is (which is not to suggest there is not already passionate quality people teaching now -- there are) and get rid of tenure and be able to promote and reward high performers and weed out poor ones. But they have to go hand-in-hand. You can't do the latter and not the former and expect it to work. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 11:06 am EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Just out of curiosity. How many of you work at places that hire kids out of college at 60 thou a year. |
Plenty, actually, at least in NYC, LA, SF and Boston. We pay first job EA's $48K with absolutely no experience to do a job radically less important where I work. And those who had family connections to get summer internships at investment banks during their undergrad years can start right out of school with a BA as an associate in M&A or Strategic Planning making twice that.
But what's the point of the question? Most public teachers don't make $60K just out of college. Where did you get that fantasy? That's not what the chart on the previous page shows. That is the average wage for all teachers in the state. So the more appropriate question is, how many kids who graduated with undergrad then sought extra advanced degrees or certifications (like teachers do) average only $60K in their entire multi-decade work history? |
I don't know many jobs that pay a kid out of college with a BA degree 60k a year. I am sure there are some, but it's not the majority. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 12:53 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Just out of curiosity. How many of you work at places that hire kids out of college at 60 thou a year. |
Plenty, actually, at least in NYC, LA, SF and Boston. We pay first job EA's $48K with absolutely no experience to do a job radically less important where I work. And those who had family connections to get summer internships at investment banks during their undergrad years can start right out of school with a BA as an associate in M&A or Strategic Planning making twice that.
But what's the point of the question? Most public teachers don't make $60K just out of college. Where did you get that fantasy? That's not what the chart on the previous page shows. That is the average wage for all teachers in the state. So the more appropriate question is, how many kids who graduated with undergrad then sought extra advanced degrees or certifications (like teachers do) average only $60K in their entire multi-decade work history? |
I don't know many jobs that pay a kid out of college with a BA degree 60k a year. I am sure there are some, but it's not the majority. |
With all due respect then either your knowledge is out of date or you don't work in a position to know starting salaries in major industries in major markets like NYC.
But, again, what's the point since the premise of the question is fundamentally flawed since it incorrectly suggested that was the starting salary for teachers when its not. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 1:25 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Just out of curiosity. How many of you work at places that hire kids out of college at 60 thou a year. |
Plenty, actually, at least in NYC, LA, SF and Boston. We pay first job EA's $48K with absolutely no experience to do a job radically less important where I work. And those who had family connections to get summer internships at investment banks during their undergrad years can start right out of school with a BA as an associate in M&A or Strategic Planning making twice that.
But what's the point of the question? Most public teachers don't make $60K just out of college. Where did you get that fantasy? That's not what the chart on the previous page shows. That is the average wage for all teachers in the state. So the more appropriate question is, how many kids who graduated with undergrad then sought extra advanced degrees or certifications (like teachers do) average only $60K in their entire multi-decade work history? |
I don't know many jobs that pay a kid out of college with a BA degree 60k a year. I am sure there are some, but it's not the majority. |
With all due respect then either your knowledge is out of date or you don't work in a position to know starting salaries in major industries in major markets like NYC.
But, again, what's the point since the premise of the question is fundamentally flawed since it incorrectly suggested that was the starting salary for teachers when its not. |
Actually I do. If you are talking investment banks on Wall St or law firms yes. But, if you are talking general market and your including our area as well as NYC then you are far from a 60K starting salary. I know a number of parents who have college kids wishing they got 60k because they could afford to leave home then. The average I am seeing including my company as each practice manager gets the slots is between 30k and 40K. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 1:41 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Just out of curiosity. How many of you work at places that hire kids out of college at 60 thou a year. |
Plenty, actually, at least in NYC, LA, SF and Boston. We pay first job EA's $48K with absolutely no experience to do a job radically less important where I work. And those who had family connections to get summer internships at investment banks during their undergrad years can start right out of school with a BA as an associate in M&A or Strategic Planning making twice that.
But what's the point of the question? Most public teachers don't make $60K just out of college. Where did you get that fantasy? That's not what the chart on the previous page shows. That is the average wage for all teachers in the state. So the more appropriate question is, how many kids who graduated with undergrad then sought extra advanced degrees or certifications (like teachers do) average only $60K in their entire multi-decade work history? |
I don't know many jobs that pay a kid out of college with a BA degree 60k a year. I am sure there are some, but it's not the majority. |
With all due respect then either your knowledge is out of date or you don't work in a position to know starting salaries in major industries in major markets like NYC.
But, again, what's the point since the premise of the question is fundamentally flawed since it incorrectly suggested that was the starting salary for teachers when its not. |
Actually I do. If you are talking investment banks on Wall St or law firms yes. But, if you are talking general market and your including our area as well as NYC then you are far from a 60K starting salary. I know a number of parents who have college kids wishing they got 60k because they could afford to leave home then. The average I am seeing including my company as each practice manager gets the slots is between 30k and 40K. |
Of course if you take the average of all professions it will always be low. But there are plenty of industries beyond just investment banks and law firms with competitively high starting salaries. My company is in the internet space and you can get an entry level mailroom job with no college education in the low $30's and an entry level tech job with a BA degree in the $60-range. And I've seen the research that shows these are typical in the market. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 5:55 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Of course, if you only compare to the industries with the highest salaries in the most expensive cities, you might skew the results as well. Duh! I hope you're not teaching my kid. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 6:08 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Just out of curiosity. How many of you work at places that hire kids out of college at 60 thou a year. |
Plenty, actually, at least in NYC, LA, SF and Boston. We pay first job EA's $48K with absolutely no experience to do a job radically less important where I work. And those who had family connections to get summer internships at investment banks during their undergrad years can start right out of school with a BA as an associate in M&A or Strategic Planning making twice that.
But what's the point of the question? Most public teachers don't make $60K just out of college. Where did you get that fantasy? That's not what the chart on the previous page shows. That is the average wage for all teachers in the state. So the more appropriate question is, how many kids who graduated with undergrad then sought extra advanced degrees or certifications (like teachers do) average only $60K in their entire multi-decade work history? |
I don't know many jobs that pay a kid out of college with a BA degree 60k a year. I am sure there are some, but it's not the majority. |
With all due respect then either your knowledge is out of date or you don't work in a position to know starting salaries in major industries in major markets like NYC.
But, again, what's the point since the premise of the question is fundamentally flawed since it incorrectly suggested that was the starting salary for teachers when its not. |
Actually I do. If you are talking investment banks on Wall St or law firms yes. But, if you are talking general market and your including our area as well as NYC then you are far from a 60K starting salary. I know a number of parents who have college kids wishing they got 60k because they could afford to leave home then. The average I am seeing including my company as each practice manager gets the slots is between 30k and 40K. |
Of course if you take the average of all professions it will always be low. But there are plenty of industries beyond just investment banks and law firms with competitively high starting salaries. My company is in the internet space and you can get an entry level mailroom job with no college education in the low $30's and an entry level tech job with a BA degree in the $60-range. And I've seen the research that shows these are typical in the market. |
Don't tell our mail room guys they only make 12-14 an hour and that is NYC. You guys must have a very high pay scale at your company what do the execs make? I can tell you I work for an accounting firm and our entry level college grads start at $45k on average in NYC and somewhat less at our NJ offices. |
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stay in school
Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 8:02 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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Average salary = $60,000
+ coaching & summer school = $75,000
X 2 incomes = $150,000
Congratulations average teachers! According to the state of NJ, you're WEALTHY, you have great health benefits, awesome pensions AND tenure!
I guess it really does pay to stay in school. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 8:19 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| stay in school wrote: | Average salary = $60,000
+ coaching & summer school = $75,000
X 2 incomes = $150,000
Congratulations average teachers! According to the state of NJ, you're WEALTHY, you have great health benefits, awesome pensions AND tenure!
I guess it really does pay to stay in school. |
Why did you asusme 2 sets of equal incomes? Are all teachers supposed to marry each other or something? My wife doesn't earn anything near what I do. So have we broken some rule that all families have macthed incomes or even 2 incomes? Are all teachers even married? Do they all have second and third jobs? Interesting set of assumptions. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 8:24 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| How does any of this pertain to the subject of the TC meeting? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Mar 25 2010, 8:27 pm EDT Post subject: Re: The March 22, 2010 Township Committee meeting agenda |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Just out of curiosity. How many of you work at places that hire kids out of college at 60 thou a year. |
Plenty, actually, at least in NYC, LA, SF and Boston. We pay first job EA's $48K with absolutely no experience to do a job radically less important where I work. And those who had family connections to get summer internships at investment banks during their undergrad years can start right out of school with a BA as an associate in M&A or Strategic Planning making twice that.
But what's the point of the question? Most public teachers don't make $60K just out of college. Where did you get that fantasy? That's not what the chart on the previous page shows. That is the average wage for all teachers in the state. So the more appropriate question is, how many kids who graduated with undergrad then sought extra advanced degrees or certifications (like teachers do) average only $60K in their entire multi-decade work history? |
I don't know many jobs that pay a kid out of college with a BA degree 60k a year. I am sure there are some, but it's not the majority. |
With all due respect then either your knowledge is out of date or you don't work in a position to know starting salaries in major industries in major markets like NYC.
But, again, what's the point since the premise of the question is fundamentally flawed since it incorrectly suggested that was the starting salary for teachers when its not. |
Actually I do. If you are talking investment banks on Wall St or law firms yes. But, if you are talking general market and your including our area as well as NYC then you are far from a 60K starting salary. I know a number of parents who have college kids wishing they got 60k because they could afford to leave home then. The average I am seeing including my company as each practice manager gets the slots is between 30k and 40K. |
Of course if you take the average of all professions it will always be low. But there are plenty of industries beyond just investment banks and law firms with competitively high starting salaries. My company is in the internet space and you can get an entry level mailroom job with no college education in the low $30's and an entry level tech job with a BA degree in the $60-range. And I've seen the research that shows these are typical in the market. |
Don't tell our mail room guys they only make 12-14 an hour and that is NYC. You guys must have a very high pay scale at your company what do the execs make? I can tell you I work for an accounting firm and our entry level college grads start at $45k on average in NYC and somewhat less at our NJ offices. |
Yes but $60K is also not the average pay of all people who work at your accounting firm. Treacher’s don’t start at $60 either. The difference is that the best people at your accounting firm end up earning a healthy 6-figure salary, or even better if they become top management. Or they go to work for one of the clients they worked on making six figures. We have many people in our Accounting, Internal Audit, Treasury and Financial Planning departments that came from accounting firms who now make 6-figure salaries. The best teachers in public schools never will unless they leave public education or give up on teaching and become administrators. That’s why the average is $60 despite teachers with decades of seniority.
$14 a hour isn’t far off from “low $30’s BTW.” And they would legally be eligible for overtime which would easily get them there.
Have you seen the Towers Perrin data for average salaries for white collar college degree jobs in NYC? I have and trust me teachers are well below the average. |
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