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Guest
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 Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 6:09 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter |
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| Guest wrote: | | How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that |
I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 6:19 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that |
I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job. |
How much do you make? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 6:20 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that |
I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job. |
How much do you make? |
And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 7:01 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that |
I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job. |
How much do you make? |
And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received? |
Funny, I thought you were going to ask me how many days a year I work, the terms of my tenure agreement or my pension plan. But your questions are good ones, too.
I make about what a principal makes and my largest annual raise or increase was probably around 5%.
I'm not sure why so many people in education seem to think everyone else is making a killing. Its simply not true. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 8:49 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that |
I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job. |
How much do you make? |
And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received? |
Funny, I thought you were going to ask me how many days a year I work, the terms of my tenure agreement or my pension plan. But your questions are good ones, too.
I make about what a principal makes and my largest annual raise or increase was probably around 5%.
I'm not sure why so many people in education seem to think everyone else is making a killing. Its simply not true. |
I'm the one who asked and I'm not in education. A principle, who is not a teacher, typically makes more than twice what the average teacher makes. And teachers don’t get 5% raises. Teacher's usually can't get promotions, don't get severance when they are terminated, etc. etc. You're correct that they get time off in the summer and often (but not always) have nice pension plans (which vary greatly from state to state), as do millions of other unionized employees in other professions.
You're making my point for me, which is that it is unfair to compare their situation on your terms because there are many differences. They have pros and cons versus other jobs. But some people seem to think you can ignore all the cons, look just at the pros and then compare them to their own situations. If you’d like to agree to never be eligible for a promotion, never receive a large raise when times are good or as your experience increases, not have your performance have any impact on your pay and make far less than the average person with a similar educational level and requirement, then you can start saying that if you have to take a pay cut so should they. Alternatively, if we want to start paying salaries competitive versus other industries with their education and skill levels, give raises and promotions for great performance, provide the type of severance for layoffs typical of the private sector, etc., then it makes sense to say that they should be held to the same standards in lean years that those of us in the private sector are. Right now their deal is they don’t get the same level of upside as others when times are good and they are protected more when times are bad. Personally I’m all for giving them competive wages and terms and hiring, firing and promoting based on performance, and I strongly oppose the unions. I just equally oppose those who think teachers have some great deal either because it’s just not supported by the full facts. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Apr 21 2010, 10:57 pm EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that |
I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job. |
How much do you make? |
And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received? |
Funny, I thought you were going to ask me how many days a year I work, the terms of my tenure agreement or my pension plan. But your questions are good ones, too.
I make about what a principal makes and my largest annual raise or increase was probably around 5%.
I'm not sure why so many people in education seem to think everyone else is making a killing. Its simply not true. |
I'm the one who asked and I'm not in education. A principle, who is not a teacher, typically makes more than twice what the average teacher makes. And teachers don’t get 5% raises. Teacher's usually can't get promotions, don't get severance when they are terminated, etc. etc. You're correct that they get time off in the summer and often (but not always) have nice pension plans (which vary greatly from state to state), as do millions of other unionized employees in other professions.
You're making my point for me, which is that it is unfair to compare their situation on your terms because there are many differences. They have pros and cons versus other jobs. But some people seem to think you can ignore all the cons, look just at the pros and then compare them to their own situations. If you’d like to agree to never be eligible for a promotion, never receive a large raise when times are good or as your experience increases, not have your performance have any impact on your pay and make far less than the average person with a similar educational level and requirement, then you can start saying that if you have to take a pay cut so should they. Alternatively, if we want to start paying salaries competitive versus other industries with their education and skill levels, give raises and promotions for great performance, provide the type of severance for layoffs typical of the private sector, etc., then it makes sense to say that they should be held to the same standards in lean years that those of us in the private sector are. Right now their deal is they don’t get the same level of upside as others when times are good and they are protected more when times are bad. Personally I’m all for giving them competive wages and terms and hiring, firing and promoting based on performance, and I strongly oppose the unions. I just equally oppose those who think teachers have some great deal either because it’s just not supported by the full facts. |
Check your "facts". Many of your points are simply not accurate. I believe educators are, and should be, compensated fairly. However, it is simply no longer true that their compensation lags behind the private sector averages.
Educators regularly receive raises and increases in the 0%-5% range, commensurate with those I have received (and their benefits are typically far greater). Teachers do get raises based on experience and additional education. They also have several paths for advancement (where do you think school administrators come from?). Teachers also have several opportunities to supplement their incomes within a typical 40-50 hour work week, especially when you factor in summer break. Your grandstand is made of popsicle sticks.
Regarding my responses- the original question was "how would you like a pay freeze in this economy?" I found that to be an ignorant question given the prevalence of job losses, furloughs and pay decreases recently. So, I shared my experience as a straight forward answer to an ignorant question. Also, the discussion was about administrative pay freezes and my job is most similar in responsibilities, experience and compensation to a school principal, so I drew a comparison to a principal. For the record, I would have loved a pay freeze. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 7:14 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter |
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"How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that"
How about people who are retired and on a fixed income. now taxes go up, health care goes up. What about them? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Apr 22 2010, 7:31 am EDT Post subject: Re: Cranbury Township School District Budget Letter |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | How would you like to have a pay freeze in this economy when cost of living is getting higher and higher? Better yet maybe you should just be laid off. Good luck paying a mortgage and feeding your family after that |
I had a 10% pay cut and 2 weeks of furloughs and my health care went up 25%. And I consider myself fortunate to have a job. |
How much do you make? |
And what is the largest raise or annual increase you've ever received? |
Funny, I thought you were going to ask me how many days a year I work, the terms of my tenure agreement or my pension plan. But your questions are good ones, too.
I make about what a principal makes and my largest annual raise or increase was probably around 5%.
I'm not sure why so many people in education seem to think everyone else is making a killing. Its simply not true. |
Many Educators have never worked in earnest in the private sector. It is natural for them to assume the grass is greener on the other side. Those who do leave education often find out it isn't.
Being an educator isn't easy, either. Green grass is hard to come by for almost everyone. That said, we're in a drought and EVERYONE needs to do their part. |
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