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 Posted: Wed, Oct 20 2010, 10:27 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | Scooter,
You don't seem to have any sense of how often you contradict yourself. If you had a well formulated opinion you would acknowledge that this is a complicated issue that has frequently been mis-handled by parties on all sides and that our founding fathers never envisioned a godless society, but rather a society where people of various religious beliefs could practice without fear of persecution. Your warped sense of historical "facts", righteous indignation and sense of entitlement shows just how poorly our schools are handling important social issues. God help us! |
Dear Zip (The Pinhead)
Our nation was founded by geniuses so that it could be run by idiots!
That premonition seems to be coming true.
Nobody ever mentioned a godless society. Thats your own warped view of the nation today.
You're probably the type that believes the reason why kids are shooting up our schools is because we have removed school prayer. It never occurs to an ossified mind such as yours that perhaps it's because we have a gun-crazed culture that allows children easy access to firearms. Guns were meant to be kept by citizen-soldiers to protect and defend against government intrusion, whether foreighn or domestic. "A WELL-REGULATED MILITIA". Not just any kook who feels like having one.
Anyway, the founders most likely meant muzzle-loaded, single shot, black power muskets. Not automatic machine guns with exploding bullets! Why would anyone need to have assault rifles for hunting, unless they're hunting on safari in Africa?
So, you may twist and turn and warp your constitution anyway you which, but, you are NOT entitled to your own facts. |
Scooter,
What's with the rant on guns? This topic is about government and religion.
My point is simply that the pendulum has swung so far to the extreme that we won't even allow for a moment of silence for those who might wish to pray. That's ridiculous.
By stamping out all religious references, we are effectively promoting a Godless society. This was clearly NOT the intention of the founders considering all the religious references they used and they way the used them. You can blab on and on about your personal interpretations of the constitution, but you can't ignore the simple fact that our founders attributed our inalienable rights to an endowment from our Creator. |
Cuz right-wingers always conflate God & guns.
Like you can't have one without the other.
They confuse Jesus with Ted Nugent just cause they look alike!
It's simple............easy access to guns is making this a more dangerous society to live in. Not kids praying or not praying in school. That little act is irrelevant.
Just like the Pledge of Allegiance.
Its just a vestige of the Cold War.
We make little kids say it so that they don't grow up to be Communists...............or at least, Democrats.
It's a silly relic of a bygone era. drop it already. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 20 2010, 10:27 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: |
You're probably the type that believes the reason why kids are shooting up our schools is because we have removed school prayer. It never occurs to an ossified mind such as yours that perhaps it's because we have a gun-crazed culture that allows children easy access to firearms. |
FYI- we've been living in a "gun crazed culture that allows children easy access to firearms" for a long time now. The prevalence of bringing guns to school to mow down classmates and teachers is a relatively new phenomenon. While I'll grant you that access to guns must be considered a contributing factor, I don't see how this can be the primary cause. Perhaps it does have something to do with our increasingly Godless society. Perhaps religion tempered our gun culture. Perhaps not. Either way, something has changed beyond access to guns. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 20 2010, 10:40 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: |
Cuz right-wingers always conflate God & guns. Like you can't have one without the other.. |
Funny, you are the one who brought guns into a thread about religion. I thought you were just changing the subject because you couldn't handle the debate about religion (as with other topics). Little did I know you're actually a closeted "right-winger conflating God and guns". Or is this just more BS from our beloved Scooter? |
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 20 2010, 10:50 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: | ... kids praying or not praying in school. That little act is irrelevant.
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Don't you see how brainwashed you are? Prayer is irrelevant to you, and therefore everyone else? That is your religious belief! You have no right to push your beliefs on me. That is the point. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed, Oct 20 2010, 11:52 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | Scooter,
You don't seem to have any sense of how often you contradict yourself. If you had a well formulated opinion you would acknowledge that this is a complicated issue that has frequently been mis-handled by parties on all sides and that our founding fathers never envisioned a godless society, but rather a society where people of various religious beliefs could practice without fear of persecution. Your warped sense of historical "facts", righteous indignation and sense of entitlement shows just how poorly our schools are handling important social issues. God help us! |
Dear Zip (The Pinhead)
Our nation was founded by geniuses so that it could be run by idiots!
That premonition seems to be coming true.
Nobody ever mentioned a godless society. Thats your own warped view of the nation today.
You're probably the type that believes the reason why kids are shooting up our schools is because we have removed school prayer. It never occurs to an ossified mind such as yours that perhaps it's because we have a gun-crazed culture that allows children easy access to firearms. Guns were meant to be kept by citizen-soldiers to protect and defend against government intrusion, whether foreighn or domestic. "A WELL-REGULATED MILITIA". Not just any kook who feels like having one.
Anyway, the founders most likely meant muzzle-loaded, single shot, black power muskets. Not automatic machine guns with exploding bullets! Why would anyone need to have assault rifles for hunting, unless they're hunting on safari in Africa?
So, you may twist and turn and warp your constitution anyway you which, but, you are NOT entitled to your own facts. |
Scooter,
What's with the rant on guns? This topic is about government and religion.
My point is simply that the pendulum has swung so far to the extreme that we won't even allow for a moment of silence for those who might wish to pray. That's ridiculous.
By stamping out all religious references, we are effectively promoting a Godless society. This was clearly NOT the intention of the founders considering all the religious references they used and they way the used them. You can blab on and on about your personal interpretations of the constitution, but you can't ignore the simple fact that our founders attributed our inalienable rights to an endowment from our Creator. |
I disagree with your premise. We have not stamped out all religious references. We are not promoting a Godless society. I think you like to think this because it allows you to play the victim.
Moreover, if someone does allow you a moment of silence in which to pray you feel your rights are being trampled on. You can pray all you want. I think it is presumptuous of you to demand that I stop what I am doing and stand at attention while you pray. The old line as long as there are Math tests there will be prayer in school. However, I think you might do better on the test if you studied more and prayed less. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 7:56 am EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | ... kids praying or not praying in school. That little act is irrelevant.
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Don't you see how brainwashed you are? Prayer is irrelevant to you, and therefore everyone else? That is your religious belief! You have no right to push your beliefs on me. That is the point. |
Wrong again, Zippy.
The government is not allowed to push beliefs onto anyone. However, as a private citizen, I can make fun of your silliness as much as I like!
Don't you ever get those loonies who knock on your door and try to talk you into joining them?
They're a pain in the ass, but, perfectly within their rights to do what they do.
Just as I am within my rights to believe that school prayer is silly and useless. Except for math tests!!!! |
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 7:58 am EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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Anyway, whats wrong with a godless society?
The Europeans get by pretty well by being secularized.
Look at all of the idiots we have in politics who are religious.
I'd rather have an honest Atheist than a coniving "Christian" anyday! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 8:08 am EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: |
My point is simply that the pendulum has swung so far to the extreme that we won't even allow for a moment of silence for those who might wish to pray. That's ridiculous.
By stamping out all religious references, we are effectively promoting a Godless society. This was clearly NOT the intention of the founders considering all the religious references they used and they way the used them. You can blab on and on about your personal interpretations of the constitution, but you can't ignore the simple fact that our founders attributed our inalienable rights to an endowment from our Creator. |
I disagree with your premise. We have not stamped out all religious references. We are not promoting a Godless society. I think you like to think this because it allows you to play the victim.
Moreover, if someone does allow you a moment of silence in which to pray you feel your rights are being trampled on. You can pray all you want. I think it is presumptuous of you to demand that I stop what I am doing and stand at attention while you pray. The old line as long as there are Math tests there will be prayer in school. However, I think you might do better on the test if you studied more and prayed less.[/quote]
We'll have to agree to disagree. I see a group of radicals pushing society way past the point of preventing government sanctioned religious preference toward a policy of blindly stamping out religious references. Your refusal to respectfully be quiet for a moment to give others a chance to gather their thoughts,or pray if they want to, is every bit as biased as the (inappropriate) idea that we should start homeroom with "the Lord's prayer". It is also an example of how far the pendulum has swung.
Sadly, this radical and inflexible position has unintended consequences. For example, instead of learning that Christians, Jews and Muslims have fundamentally similar beliefs, we learn nothing about the Bible, Torah and Quran. We are perpetuating the ignorance that fuels the fear and loathing of other religious groups at home and abroad. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 11:15 am EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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School prayer is just a silly idea.
Why should it matter when you do your prayer thing?
Do it at home, in church or on the way to school on the bus.
Why do it in school anyway?
If you do allow it in school, then people will complain that they can't do it long enough. Its too short of a time period. It's too much of a slippery slope. It just gives people another excuse to bitch about how poorly religious people are treated in this country. If you don't like it, move to Iran and see how long you last over there. |
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 11:20 am EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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You can pray as much as you like, night and day. It just doesn't belong in a public school setting.
You can learn religion as part of social studies, but not as doctrinal dogma. Thats what parochial schools are for.
When was the last time kids prayed in school anyway, 1930? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 11:39 am EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: |
My point is simply that the pendulum has swung so far to the extreme that we won't even allow for a moment of silence for those who might wish to pray. That's ridiculous.
By stamping out all religious references, we are effectively promoting a Godless society. This was clearly NOT the intention of the founders considering all the religious references they used and they way the used them. You can blab on and on about your personal interpretations of the constitution, but you can't ignore the simple fact that our founders attributed our inalienable rights to an endowment from our Creator. |
I disagree with your premise. We have not stamped out all religious references. We are not promoting a Godless society. I think you like to think this because it allows you to play the victim.
Moreover, if someone does allow you a moment of silence in which to pray you feel your rights are being trampled on. You can pray all you want. I think it is presumptuous of you to demand that I stop what I am doing and stand at attention while you pray. The old line as long as there are Math tests there will be prayer in school. However, I think you might do better on the test if you studied more and prayed less. |
We'll have to agree to disagree. I see a group of radicals pushing society way past the point of preventing government sanctioned religious preference toward a policy of blindly stamping out religious references. Your refusal to respectfully be quiet for a moment to give others a chance to gather their thoughts,or pray if they want to, is every bit as biased as the (inappropriate) idea that we should start homeroom with "the Lord's prayer". It is also an example of how far the pendulum has swung.
Sadly, this radical and inflexible position has unintended consequences. For example, instead of learning that Christians, Jews and Muslims have fundamentally similar beliefs, we learn nothing about the Bible, Torah and Quran. We are perpetuating the ignorance that fuels the fear and loathing of other religious groups at home and abroad.[/quote]
"Your refusal to respectfully be quiet for a moment to give other a chance to gather their thoughts, or pray if the want to, is every bit as biased...."
Again, you are the poor abused victim. This is my point. If I am in a church I respectfully am quiet. If I am at work, I work if you want to pray fine, but I am not going to stop working. When my kid is at school he is working. Again, if you want to pray fine, but to expect my kid to stop doing a calculus problem, "to respect" your beliefs is nuts.
Also, you are disingenuous to say we learn "nothing of the Bible, Torah, Quran. My kids have taken world religion courses and learned about the Bible, Torah and Quran. Don't try to convince me the religious right is trying to have us learn more about the Torah and Quran. PLEASE.
Religion is no more under attack in this country than it has been at any time since the great awakening. However, it is easier to raise money by portraying yourself as under attack. Trust me I am not attacking your religion. I don't care about your personal beliefs. I am only concerned with my families' beliefs. Quit wearing your religiousity on your sleeve. Nobody wants to change what you believe. But please sweet Jesus don't make me stand around and listen to you pray. |
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 12:29 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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The American Taliban wants everyone to believe the same way that they do.
You know who helped to end school prayer?
Christians!!!!!!!!
Right!!!!!!
Not some dippy hippies in tie-dyed shirts smoking weed.
Catholics disagreed with Protestant intrepretations of the King James Bible.
So, before you get up on your high and mighty "christian" horse, school prayer was ended to protect EVERYONE from each other. It's not some grand plot by liberals to wipe out religious whackos.
I think that you folks do love to play up the poor me victim thing. It helps with the cruciFICTION-martyr complex. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 2:07 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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I know it is eassier for you to make wild assumptions about my beliefs, religious or otherwise, and then argue that the beliefs you assume I hold are extreme and outrageous. It is easier than engaging in intelligent debate about complicated issues.
However, you don't have any idea what I believe, other than that I am not opposed to a "moment of silence" in some cases in schools, public meetings or other government run events. For example, I hope Rutgers observes a moment of silence for Eric LeGrand as well as Tyler Clementi. I don't believe it violates the constitution to do so, literally or in spirit. However, some people will probably oppose this on the grounds that a public institution should not allow for a moment of silence that may be used for prayer. I disagree with them.
As for you other wild assumptions about my beliefs, it sounds like you've been watching too much MSNBC. There are people whose opinions are not completely polarized. We're called MODERATES, and we're the vast majority of Americans. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 2:48 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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First its a "moment of silence", next its a prayer.
I know how you people operate.
You call it "intelligent design", but it really is religion class.
You must have read Frank Luntz.
You give the religious fundamentalist an inch and they'll eventually get the whole mile.
Before you know it, we're back in the 19th century again. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 2:57 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: | The American Taliban wants everyone to believe the same way that they do.
You know who helped to end school prayer?
Christians!!!!!!!!
Right!!!!!!
Not some dippy hippies in tie-dyed shirts smoking weed.
Catholics disagreed with Protestant intrepretations of the King James Bible.
So, before you get up on your high and mighty "christian" horse, school prayer was ended to protect EVERYONE from each other. It's not some grand plot by liberals to wipe out religious whackos.
I think that you folks do love to play up the poor me victim thing. It helps with the cruciFICTION-martyr complex. |
Amen from a Dominican and Jesuit indoctrinated former Catholic
it's all about escape from freedom - as Fromm phrases it |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu, Oct 21 2010, 3:17 pm EDT Post subject: Re: OMG!!! |
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| Guest wrote: | First its a "moment of silence", next its a prayer.
I know how you people operate.
You call it "intelligent design", but it really is religion class.
You must have read Frank Luntz.
You give the religious fundamentalist an inch and they'll eventually get the whole mile.
Before you know it, we're back in the 19th century again. |
Ah yes... the good ol' "slippery slope argument". You love it on this issue and hate it on gun control. What a bunch of hypocritical BS! Life is a slippery slope! Democracy is a slippery slope! America is a slippery slope! Get over it. The slippery slope argument is the foundation of extremism. |
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