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 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 12:17 am EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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O'Keefe is such a class act...
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/29/okeefe.cnn.prank/
Yes, the school system in NJ failed us, letting someone like him graduate and go on to Rutgers and Law School.... |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 10:37 am EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: |
Again, you are massively extrapolating from things not in evidence. I am the poster you responded to and I don’t believe everyone is an extremist. Nowhere did I call you an extremist or even use that word. |
So what did you mean by...
| Guest wrote: |
LOL. Your resnse is so typical of some people who follow O'Keefe or Beck. |
Did you invoke the comparison to Beck because of your great respect for his wisdom and intellect?
Don't worry. I don't expect you to take responsibility for your words. You've made your position quite clear on that issue. |
Thank you for the example because it demonstrates my point about how you are extrapolating conclusions. Do you not even see how you are doing this?
I am happy to take responsibility for my words, which, typo aside, were worded appropriately to not make over-reaching conclusions. I am careful for example to say "SOME" people instead of generalizing all viewers of their shows in the same bucket which is never true of anything. And I picked Beck because he likes to take sometimes unrelated things and reach unsubstantiated conclusions or connections. That’s his shtick. I didn’t make any comment on his political leanings or that of those who watch him. I didn’t throw in a laundry list of polarizing conservative icons like Palin, Limbaugh, Coulter or Fox News because I wasn’t making a political point or drawing conclusions about people’s politics.
You did that, not me.
Perhaps you read what you wanted to read instead of my actual words. Perhaps you did the same with the video… |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 11:19 am EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: |
Again, you are massively extrapolating from things not in evidence. I am the poster you responded to and I don’t believe everyone is an extremist. Nowhere did I call you an extremist or even use that word. |
So what did you mean by...
| Guest wrote: |
LOL. Your resnse is so typical of some people who follow O'Keefe or Beck. |
Did you invoke the comparison to Beck because of your great respect for his wisdom and intellect?
Don't worry. I don't expect you to take responsibility for your words. You've made your position quite clear on that issue. |
Thank you for the example because it demonstrates my point about how you are extrapolating conclusions. Do you not even see how you are doing this?
I am happy to take responsibility for my words, which, typo aside, were worded appropriately to not make over-reaching conclusions. I am careful for example to say "SOME" people instead of generalizing all viewers of their shows in the same bucket which is never true of anything. And I picked Beck because he likes to take sometimes unrelated things and reach unsubstantiated conclusions or connections. That’s his shtick. I didn’t make any comment on his political leanings or that of those who watch him. I didn’t throw in a laundry list of polarizing conservative icons like Palin, Limbaugh, Coulter or Fox News because I wasn’t making a political point or drawing conclusions about people’s politics.
You did that, not me.
Perhaps you read what you wanted to read instead of my actual words. Perhaps you did the same with the video… |
So you don't think Beck is a polarizing conservative icon? You really think it is a "massive extrapolation" on my part to believe that you think Beck is an extremist? (ex·trem·ist /ɪkˈstrimɪst/ –noun
A person who goes to extremes, esp. in political matters). And your characterization of my comments as "typical" of Beck's followers were not meant to paint my comments as extreme. Get real! I think you're being disingenuous about this. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 12:04 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: |
Again, you are massively extrapolating from things not in evidence. I am the poster you responded to and I don’t believe everyone is an extremist. Nowhere did I call you an extremist or even use that word. |
So what did you mean by...
| Guest wrote: |
LOL. Your resnse is so typical of some people who follow O'Keefe or Beck. |
Did you invoke the comparison to Beck because of your great respect for his wisdom and intellect?
Don't worry. I don't expect you to take responsibility for your words. You've made your position quite clear on that issue. |
Thank you for the example because it demonstrates my point about how you are extrapolating conclusions. Do you not even see how you are doing this?
I am happy to take responsibility for my words, which, typo aside, were worded appropriately to not make over-reaching conclusions. I am careful for example to say "SOME" people instead of generalizing all viewers of their shows in the same bucket which is never true of anything. And I picked Beck because he likes to take sometimes unrelated things and reach unsubstantiated conclusions or connections. That’s his shtick. I didn’t make any comment on his political leanings or that of those who watch him. I didn’t throw in a laundry list of polarizing conservative icons like Palin, Limbaugh, Coulter or Fox News because I wasn’t making a political point or drawing conclusions about people’s politics.
You did that, not me.
Perhaps you read what you wanted to read instead of my actual words. Perhaps you did the same with the video… |
So you don't think Beck is a polarizing conservative icon? You really think it is a "massive extrapolation" on my part to believe that you think Beck is an extremist? (ex•trem•ist /ɪkˈstrimɪst/ –noun
A person who goes to extremes, esp. in political matters). And your characterization of my comments as "typical" of Beck's followers were not meant to paint my comments as extreme. Get real! I think you're being disingenuous about this. |
You are entitled to your opinion. It’s just not consistent with my intent. I chose my words carefully. Why would I add “some” when it would have been easier to leave that word out if my point was to label Beck viewers in general? And, again, you are reading things even into my response. I didn’t say Beck wasn’t a polarizing figure. I said if I had wanted to make a political statement I would have thrown in the typical laundry list of such figures. I singled Beck out because the point was about drawing unsubstantiated conclusions and that’s something associated with Beck specifically. He’s the most famous example I could think of for it. There are plenty of liberal polarizing icons as well. Stewart, Oberman, MSNBC, etc, but they aren’t as well known for that particular trait. Palin, Limbaugh, they are all famous too, but not for that behavior.
You say you are politically in the middle but you seem particularly sensitive to reading political intent into everything. More often than not – see how I used extra words to be precise and not make a sweeping statement – people who are moderate and not inclined to do that. We don’t tend to assume everything is us versus them or extreme. And we don’t assume every statement has a political agenda or is designed to disparage one group or another.
But that’s okay. I accept that people can be misinterpreted. And I don’t expect a public apology for misreading me. Kind of like I don’t expect an apology or clarification from Ms. Alfonso just because some people misinterpreted her or didn’t agree with her behavior away from school. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 2:28 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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How do you know Ms. Alfonso was misinterpreted when neither she, nor the administration, bothered to make a clarification?
O'Keefe's video shows Ms. Alfonso saying "we're playing video game on their dime. Hahahaha. It's like, screw you!"
Is it likely she was quoted out of context by a politically motivated sleazebag who selectively edited the video to make her look bad? Yep.
But in the absence of a statement by Ms. Alfonso or the school administration, how would you know? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 2:53 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | How do you know Ms. Alfonso was misinterpreted when neither she, nor the administration, bothered to make a clarification?
O'Keefe's video shows Ms. Alfonso saying "we're playing video game on their dime. Hahahaha. It's like, screw you!"
Is it likely she was quoted out of context by a politically motivated sleazebag who selectively edited the video to make her look bad? Yep.
But in the absence of a statement by Ms. Alfonso or the school administration, how would you know? |
Because it is an NJEA event. Schools don't pay for union activities, unions do. I think you are just trying to stir the pot. You can't possibly believe that schools pay for union conventions. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 4:21 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | How do you know Ms. Alfonso was misinterpreted when neither she, nor the administration, bothered to make a clarification?
O'Keefe's video shows Ms. Alfonso saying "we're playing video game on their dime. Hahahaha. It's like, screw you!"
Is it likely she was quoted out of context by a politically motivated sleazebag who selectively edited the video to make her look bad? Yep.
But in the absence of a statement by Ms. Alfonso or the school administration, how would you know? |
This guy O'Keefe is a real right wing crazy. Don't have to look very hard to see his distorted outlook
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/26/AR2010012604145.html?wprss=rss_print
http://mediamatters.org/research/201010270033 |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 5:06 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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Strange that a right-wing nutbag would attend a PUBLIC SCHOOL like Rutgers.
I get a kick out of kooks who complain about "the system", as it is, and then set about to game it for all that they can get! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 5:42 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | How do you know Ms. Alfonso was misinterpreted when neither she, nor the administration, bothered to make a clarification?
O'Keefe's video shows Ms. Alfonso saying "we're playing video game on their dime. Hahahaha. It's like, screw you!"
Is it likely she was quoted out of context by a politically motivated sleazebag who selectively edited the video to make her look bad? Yep.
But in the absence of a statement by Ms. Alfonso or the school administration, how would you know? |
She was at a Union organized and funded event during the summer. So the most direct interpetation is she is laughing at screwing her own Union. Wouldn't that put a spin on things.
I have no idea what was in her head or what she meant. I don't have to. She is innocent until proven otherwise. That's the point -- she doesn't owe anyone an explanation for something that was not illegal, doesn't involve our kids and isn't unequivically inappropriate. The idea that she is obligated to apologize or clarify just because someone choses to be concerned or take one of many possible interpretations is silly. She's a private citizen who wasn't on the job and can say what she would like. She could have used profanity and it wouldn't change the situation. She's not "on" 24/7 -- her job doesn't obligate her to be Mary Poppins every moment of every day and she is not some serf of the Township who owes her masters an explanation every time she displeases one of us. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 5:48 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | How do you know Ms. Alfonso was misinterpreted when neither she, nor the administration, bothered to make a clarification?
O'Keefe's video shows Ms. Alfonso saying "we're playing video game on their dime. Hahahaha. It's like, screw you!"
Is it likely she was quoted out of context by a politically motivated sleazebag who selectively edited the video to make her look bad? Yep.
But in the absence of a statement by Ms. Alfonso or the school administration, how would you know? |
Because it is an NJEA event. Schools don't pay for union activities, unions do. I think you are just trying to stir the pot. You can't possibly believe that schools pay for union conventions. |
Schools shut down for union conventions every year. This year students were allowed to skip school to support the NJEA. I don't know who paid for Ms. Alfonso to attend the conference or if she had any financial incentive to attend. For example, I don't know if teachers receive pay increases and/or rewards for continuing education classes administered by their trade organization, as is the case in some other professions. Perhaps if she, or the school administration, made a statement it would lend some clarity to the situation. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 5:59 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | How do you know Ms. Alfonso was misinterpreted when neither she, nor the administration, bothered to make a clarification?
O'Keefe's video shows Ms. Alfonso saying "we're playing video game on their dime. Hahahaha. It's like, screw you!"
Is it likely she was quoted out of context by a politically motivated sleazebag who selectively edited the video to make her look bad? Yep.
But in the absence of a statement by Ms. Alfonso or the school administration, how would you know? |
She was at a Union organized and funded event during the summer. So the most direct interpetation is she is laughing at screwing her own Union. Wouldn't that put a spin on things.
I have no idea what was in her head or what she meant. I don't have to. She is innocent until proven otherwise. That's the point -- she doesn't owe anyone an explanation for something that was not illegal, doesn't involve our kids and isn't unequivically inappropriate. The idea that she is obligated to apologize or clarify just because someone choses to be concerned or take one of many possible interpretations is silly. She's a private citizen who wasn't on the job and can say what she would like. She could have used profanity and it wouldn't change the situation. She's not "on" 24/7 -- her job doesn't obligate her to be Mary Poppins every moment of every day and she is not some serf of the Township who owes her masters an explanation every time she displeases one of us. |
I would agree with you if this comment hadn't been part of a major news story. I didn't google "dumb comments by cranbury school teachers" and find her comment. She was on the front page of newspaper web sites and the story was picked up by all kinds of news organizations. She made a comment that was positioned in a negative way and received a lot of press. She may have been misquoted, lied to, set up or tricked into it, but apparently we'll never know, because neither Ms. Alfonso, or the school administration, is willing to address it. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 8:20 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | How do you know Ms. Alfonso was misinterpreted when neither she, nor the administration, bothered to make a clarification?
O'Keefe's video shows Ms. Alfonso saying "we're playing video game on their dime. Hahahaha. It's like, screw you!"
Is it likely she was quoted out of context by a politically motivated sleazebag who selectively edited the video to make her look bad? Yep.
But in the absence of a statement by Ms. Alfonso or the school administration, how would you know? |
Because it is an NJEA event. Schools don't pay for union activities, unions do. I think you are just trying to stir the pot. You can't possibly believe that schools pay for union conventions. |
Schools shut down for union conventions every year. This year students were allowed to skip school to support the NJEA. I don't know who paid for Ms. Alfonso to attend the conference or if she had any financial incentive to attend. For example, I don't know if teachers receive pay increases and/or rewards for continuing education classes administered by their trade organization, as is the case in some other professions. Perhaps if she, or the school administration, made a statement it would lend some clarity to the situation. |
The video was from a summer session, not the November event.
You have it backwards. You have chosen to interpret the situation, admitting you don't know and can only speculate, and somehow expect that she or the school therefore owe you or anyone an explanation, to set the record straight. They don't owe us anything.
The burden is on you to demonstrate a wrong has been committed not on them to disprove it. That's the American way.
How about this. I believe you aren't really from Cranbury and are pretending to be. There, that's my interpretation, my guess based on limited information. Now the burden is on you to prove me wrong, to come out and say who you are and where you live so you can correct my allegation. Since I made the claim you are now obligated to respond or you are proving me right. I guess you will have no problem with this since you believe people have an obligation to respond whenever someone chose to interpret their actions. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 8:29 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | How do you know Ms. Alfonso was misinterpreted when neither she, nor the administration, bothered to make a clarification?
O'Keefe's video shows Ms. Alfonso saying "we're playing video game on their dime. Hahahaha. It's like, screw you!"
Is it likely she was quoted out of context by a politically motivated sleazebag who selectively edited the video to make her look bad? Yep.
But in the absence of a statement by Ms. Alfonso or the school administration, how would you know? |
She was at a Union organized and funded event during the summer. So the most direct interpetation is she is laughing at screwing her own Union. Wouldn't that put a spin on things.
I have no idea what was in her head or what she meant. I don't have to. She is innocent until proven otherwise. That's the point -- she doesn't owe anyone an explanation for something that was not illegal, doesn't involve our kids and isn't unequivically inappropriate. The idea that she is obligated to apologize or clarify just because someone choses to be concerned or take one of many possible interpretations is silly. She's a private citizen who wasn't on the job and can say what she would like. She could have used profanity and it wouldn't change the situation. She's not "on" 24/7 -- her job doesn't obligate her to be Mary Poppins every moment of every day and she is not some serf of the Township who owes her masters an explanation every time she displeases one of us. |
I would agree with you if this comment hadn't been part of a major news story. I didn't google "dumb comments by cranbury school teachers" and find her comment. She was on the front page of newspaper web sites and the story was picked up by all kinds of news organizations. She made a comment that was positioned in a negative way and received a lot of press. She may have been misquoted, lied to, set up or tricked into it, but apparently we'll never know, because neither Ms. Alfonso, or the school administration, is willing to address it. |
It could have been the top story of all the TV news shows, specifically focusing on her, and it wouldn't change anything. There is no evidence she did anything illegal, immoral or unethical. At most its possible she said something that reflects a unfavorably on her personal opinion or character. That's not against any laws or rules and said away from work is not even grounds for action. So she doesn't owe us anything. If she'd like to "set the record straight" that is her prerogative. If she doesn’t, that’s her choice, and doesn’t mean anything one way or the other about how any of us chose to interpret the situation. The school really doesn’t have any role in this since she hasn’t been shown to do anything that would allow them to take any action and it wasn’t done on school grounds or in the presence of students. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 8:47 pm EST Post subject: Re: Kat Alfonso |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | How do you know Ms. Alfonso was misinterpreted when neither she, nor the administration, bothered to make a clarification?
O'Keefe's video shows Ms. Alfonso saying "we're playing video game on their dime. Hahahaha. It's like, screw you!"
Is it likely she was quoted out of context by a politically motivated sleazebag who selectively edited the video to make her look bad? Yep.
But in the absence of a statement by Ms. Alfonso or the school administration, how would you know? |
This guy O'Keefe is a real right wing crazy. Don't have to look very hard to see his distorted outlook
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Whether or not O'Keefe is a politically motivated sleazbag does not change the fact that Ms. Alfonso's comments became part of a major news story. If O'Keefe deliberately twisted her words around to make her look like a fool I would think she, or someone in the administration, would gladly take a moment to clarify her position. |
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