Old Trenton RD
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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 18 2011, 12:54 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

wow i totally messed that post up
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat, Jun 18 2011, 1:51 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Look it's simple. The county set the speed limit at 35 because that was the only other option they wanted to use- 25, 35 or 50. If you speed and there is a cop you will get a ticket. Do I see speeding absolutely. I also see cops pulling cars over.

The TC argued for 40 on the roadway and lost. So for now at least you have two options- go 35 or go faster and risk a ticket. I go 35 as I don't want to risk a ticket.

However, to think you can go 50 and not get a ticket because of an engineering study is only going to provide revenue to Plainsboro. The only way you're not getting a ticket is if there is no cop.

So I don't see the need for the same old OTR poster or others to respond. The town has no control and the police are enforcing it.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat, Jun 18 2011, 2:17 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
Look it's simple. The county set the speed limit at 35 because that was the only other option they wanted to use- 25, 35 or 50. If you speed and there is a cop you will get a ticket. Do I see speeding absolutely. I also see cops pulling cars over.

The TC argued for 40 on the roadway and lost. So for now at least you have two options- go 35 or go faster and risk a ticket. I go 35 as I don't want to risk a ticket.

However, to think you can go 50 and not get a ticket because of an engineering study is only going to provide revenue to Plainsboro. The only way you're not getting a ticket is if there is no cop.

So I don't see the need for the same old OTR poster or others to respond. The town has no control and the police are enforcing it.


Can I go 53 if I'm dislexsic?
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat, Jun 18 2011, 2:25 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

I understand that, but that does not make 35 or 40 valid or safe from a scientific engineering perspective, which makes enforcement of the limit unreasonable/irrational etc. Based on the 85th percentile, the speed limit should be at least 50. Most people don't want to risk a ticket but studies have shown that they don't pay attention to the posted speed which is why many get tickets anyway. Of course if you break the limit you might get a ticket, but that doesn't make it fair, just like if you taught evolution in 1926, you might get a fine. Or, if you were black and sat at the front of a bus in Alabama in 1955, you might get arrested. It's not the same severity, but the principle is the same. Laws can be irrational and the only way to change them is to stop people from supporting them.

There is actually no legal reason it HAD to be 25, 35, or 50 either.

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/39-motor-vehicles-and-traffic-regulation/4-98.html

Those are prima facie limits that are generally used so that 25 doesn't have to be posted on EVERY neighborhood street or 50 doesn't have to be posted on EVERY rural road in order for enforcement to take place. It does not mandate that only these speeds be used, since it says:

"Whenever it shall be determined upon the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that any speed hereinbefore (wat?) set forth is greater or less than is reasonable or safe under the conditions found to exist at any intersection or other place or upon any part of a highway...."

It unfortunately does not mandate an engineering study as the sole basis for the limit (it should, for safety and fairness purposes) but it also does not mandate 25, 35, or 50 (many roads are in between). However, it does suggest that engineering studies be used as the basis for speed limits, and state/county/many local pages all warn against the false 'safety' illusion of posting limits below prevailing traffic speeds.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat, Jun 18 2011, 3:21 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Ikons697 wrote:
Guest wrote:
If you moved to Lawrenceville go find a forum for that Township. Though the obsessive Old Trenton poster has at various times claimed to live in Plainsboro, Cranbury and now Lawrenceville so who knows the truth. In any event, you haven't posted a new idea here on this topic in over a year. Do you have some calendar reminder ping you once every week or so to spam a bunch of topics here with your same old Old Trenton diatribe indefinitely? To what end? Bored? You can’t hope to be accomplishing anything here.


Are you a creationist? No? You believe in evolution because it has scientific evidence, right?

So why does me citing scientific reasons why a 35 mph speed limit on this road is unreasonable and why speed limits should be set by engineering standards instead of the whims of local residents make me an 'obsessive maniac'? Angry much? I've never lived in Cranbury or claimed to have. I lived in Plainsboro up until August 2010 and moved to Lawrenceville You're probably confusing me with someone else who has posted more recently. And by the way, I got here by google search...it's not like I've checked this forum every week for a year or something.

Everyone wants the speed limit super low on their road (almost everyone) because of the misconception that it improves safety. It seems that you are so stuck on your irrational belief that you would rather insult me for pointing out scientific facts than change it. In that event, there's no point arguing with you (not that I was trying to).


Ikons697 wrote:
Guest wrote:
If you moved to Lawrenceville go find a forum for that Township. Though the obsessive Old Trenton poster has at various times claimed to live in Plainsboro, Cranbury and now Lawrenceville so who knows the truth. In any event, you haven't posted a new idea here on this topic in over a year. Do you have some calendar reminder ping you once every week or so to spam a bunch of topics here with your same old Old Trenton diatribe indefinitely? To what end? Bored? You can’t hope to be accomplishing anything here.


Are you a creationist? No? You believe in evolution because it has scientific evidence, right?

So why does me citing scientific reasons why a 35 mph speed limit on this road is unreasonable and why speed limits should be set by engineering standards instead of the whims of local residents make me an 'obsessive maniac'? Angry much? I've never lived in Cranbury or claimed to have. I lived in Plainsboro up until August 2010 and moved to Lawrenceville You're probably confusing me with someone else who has posted more recently. And by the way, I got here by google search...it's not like I've checked this forum every week for a year or something.

Everyone wants the speed limit super low on their road (almost everyone) because of the misconception that it improves safety. It seems that you are so stuck on your irrational belief that you would rather insult me for pointing out scientific facts than change it. In that event, there's no point arguing with you (not that I was trying to).


Do you even bother to read the posts you reply to or only skim them long enough to perceive them as attacks and just launch into another repeat manifesto? My posts didn't say anything about whether your arguments where reasonable or not, or scientific or not or whatever. And I didn’t call you any names other than asking if you were bored.

What I commented on and called obsessive was the way you keep repeating them over and over and over usually on two or three different posts at a time. Yet you aren't conveying any new ideas. And if the topic lies dormant for a while you resurrect it to say the same things over yet again. Everyone here understands your point of view crystal clear and has for a long time, whether they agree with it or not. No one reading your comments could do anything about it even if they agreed with you and you are not really calling them to action anyway. So what are you accomplishing now that your point was fully made last year?
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat, Jun 18 2011, 4:09 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Obsessive does not mean coming back to post something after 8 months...This topic was at the top of the page so it was not exactly 'dormant'...the last person posted YESTERDAY. People were commenting on this topic and the speed limit and saying they were going 35. I said "that is unlikely, I never see anyone go under 45 on this road". I was insulted, then I substantiated my belief with facts and was called an idiot for it.

And actually, I am trying to convince as many people as possible that this is true. I met with the ex mayor of Lawrenceville yesterday to discuss the arbitrary 25 mph speed limit on princeton pike. It went pretty well.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat, Jun 18 2011, 4:11 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

You were rude, acted like what I was saying was worthless spam, etc. That's pretty much an attack. If you think my position is reasonable, then go recommend something I do with it instead of saying its obsessive, etc. I just randomly came back here and saw people posting, so I figured I'd post some facts on the matter. Simple.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat, Jun 18 2011, 7:08 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

It's a county rule 25-35-50

Guest wrote:
I understand that, but that does not make 35 or 40 valid or safe from a scientific engineering perspective, which makes enforcement of the limit unreasonable/irrational etc. Based on the 85th percentile, the speed limit should be at least 50. Most people don't want to risk a ticket but studies have shown that they don't pay attention to the posted speed which is why many get tickets anyway. Of course if you break the limit you might get a ticket, but that doesn't make it fair, just like if you taught evolution in 1926, you might get a fine. Or, if you were black and sat at the front of a bus in Alabama in 1955, you might get arrested. It's not the same severity, but the principle is the same. Laws can be irrational and the only way to change them is to stop people from supporting them.

There is actually no legal reason it HAD to be 25, 35, or 50 either.

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/39-motor-vehicles-and-traffic-regulation/4-98.html

Those are prima facie limits that are generally used so that 25 doesn't have to be posted on EVERY neighborhood street or 50 doesn't have to be posted on EVERY rural road in order for enforcement to take place. It does not mandate that only these speeds be used, since it says:

"Whenever it shall be determined upon the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that any speed hereinbefore (wat?) set forth is greater or less than is reasonable or safe under the conditions found to exist at any intersection or other place or upon any part of a highway...."

It unfortunately does not mandate an engineering study as the sole basis for the limit (it should, for safety and fairness purposes) but it also does not mandate 25, 35, or 50 (many roads are in between). However, it does suggest that engineering studies be used as the basis for speed limits, and state/county/many local pages all warn against the false 'safety' illusion of posting limits below prevailing traffic speeds.
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Ikons697
Guest





PostPosted: Sat, Jun 18 2011, 8:29 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Then why are some speed limits in the county 30, 40, and 45? From what I've seen, county still recommends that limit be based on an engineering study.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun, Jun 19 2011, 8:29 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Because that is what the mayor said 25-35-50 county rule
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PostPosted: Sun, Jun 19 2011, 8:56 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
Because that is what the mayor said 25-35-50 county rule

You either go with the 85% of what all cars are travelling during a recorded time period or you can go statutorily with 50, 35 25 mph. When Middlesex County did the 85% study years ago the road should have been a 55mph is I remember correctly. They could not allow highway speeds on a residential road so made it 50mph.
Some people who live on Old Trenton Road complained and must have grabbed the right ear. The speed limit was then dropped to 35mph.
I believe that the road should be 50mph and think that the 35mph is too slow, but I do not live on OTR and do not know what it's like to have cars buzzing past my house 24 hours a day.
I notice that the majority of cars are traveling around 35-40mph. I often see the cops stopping those who I assume decided to drive faster.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun, Jun 19 2011, 9:40 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

It's not just the people who lived there and in Shadow Oaks who wanted it slower. Many parents use the park with their kids and they have kids athletic games there all the time, soccer, baseball, etc.

The prevailing speed is not just a factor of the inherent "conditions of the road." It is also a factor of driver pattern. There have been many roads that started out as a faster country road decades ago, became developed and the speeds were artifically reduced to accomodate that. Then over time the "prevailing" speed of the 85% rule goes down as a result of changing driver behavior in reaction to the reduced posted speed and enforcement. That's normal course and exactly what is in motion here. For that other poster to pretend this isn't how it works elsewhere is silly.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun, Jun 19 2011, 3:01 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

To the person above me, you clearly just aren't familiar with the engineering literature. Speed enforcement of an arbitrarily low limit does not change overall driver behavior except in extreme cases, and the effects are only temporary. It's also less effective to enforce limits this way, since setting the limit at the 85th percentile lets police stop only drivers that are going significantly faster than the traffic flow (reasonable speed) rather than randomly cherry picking. It's a waste of police resources to try to stop drivers traveling at a safe speed. If 50 mph is safe on 571, nostrand Rd, Southfield Rd, Rabbit Hill Rd, Cranbury Neck Rd, etc...It is a safe speed on similar roads.

Reducing or raising the limit by 15 mph or more also makes no significant difference in driver speeds. Proof: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/humanfac/rd97002.cfm. You can view the full study also, easy google search.

It does make a small percentage drivers decide to go slow and follow the limit, which disrupts traffic flow (you get lines of cars following someone trying to drive 40, which is unsafe because it leads to tailgating and aggressive driving incidents). Studies have repeatedly shown that the majority (85%) of drivers taken into account development, residential density, etc when choosing their speeds and drive safely. Studies have also shown that posting a lower limit does not reduce speeds. Changing the road itself is basically the only way to actually reduce speeds.

Many similar roads are 50 mph; some are actually more developed and hence prevailing speeds are sometimes under the 50 mph limit. Unfortunately, the statutes do technically allow this kind of nonsense, though the purpose of them is as I stated before, not to reduce limits from those validly determined by engineering studies. I live almost right on 206. I would rather have the speed limit be raised to 45 than dropped to 30 or something. It improves traffic flow and 85th percentile speed limits are safer.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun, Jun 19 2011, 3:02 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Now, I do agree that people should slow down temporarily when there are cyclists, pedestrians, etc (I always do)...and a lot of people do, but some don't. It's unfortunate but trying to make people go slow 100% of the time seems like an unfair blanket punishment.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun, Jun 19 2011, 4:04 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Two posts in a row again. Do you ever posts just once at a time? You have all the hallmarks of obessive compplusive disorder so this is probably just a symptom. Now hold your breath and try really hard to post just reply. Come on, you can do it.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun, Jun 19 2011, 8:44 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Old Trenton RD Reply with quote

Its called not being able to edit my post, stop saying stupid irrelevant shit since it makes you seem unintelligent. In fact, just get lost...if you have nothing constructive to say since you obviously don't and feel so emotional about this issue as to insult me.
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