Library's surveillance policy is discussed
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anon-7686
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2015, 7:10 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

If the library is truly concerned both about safety and residents then they would reduce the daily hours during the week and add Sunday hours back. Then those who work can have more access and the safety issue goes away.

I never hear the library in all their talk about school safety address this issue or concern.
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anon-ppq2
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2015, 9:39 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

Real issues:
Planning - Master plan has an access road connecting Park Place West and the School parking lot. The current School Board is not in favor of having this built. Space has been left in the plan in case it is decided to build it at a later date. Plans for a separate public library date have been in the works for many years.

Money – The capital campaign goal for solely for the new library. It is based on current construction costs. Estimate has included “escalation”. Township Committee has asked that all money be raised prior to the start of construction. The feasibility study said that the campaign would take three to five years. It is taking as long as expected.

The library’s day to day costs as well as capital costs are covered by the library appropriation. Money is regularly budgeted for repairs and upkeep.

No extra staff will be required to run the new library. The new energy efficient building will cost less to operate than the rent paid to the school. This includes a specially licensed school custodian who is required to be there when the library is opened and the school is closed, which includes weekends, evenings, holidays and summer vacation.

The school will not lose money when the public library moves out; the rent is based on the increased expenses of having the library open when the school is not including utilities and the specially licensed custodian. Once the library moves out, those expenses go away.

Control- Cranbury Public Library Foundation is raising the money for the specific goal of the building. Cranbury Public Library Board of Trustees runs the library.

Use - Last year our public library had 49,843 patrons visiting, and 41,314 items circulated. School library numbers are not included in these figures.

Future of Libraries – Libraries continue to be relevant with the focus changing from only books to professionally selected materials that match needs of the community. Also, with the ability to do so many things at home on our computers, there is a need to have a community gathering spot. Public libraries operate outside the political realm.

If you would like to fact check, all this information can be found through the public library website, board minutes, foundation information.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2015, 12:09 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

The above is great info.

However, it does not explain why not reduce week day hours and add Sunday hours. It would increase patronage and reduce security risk.
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joke-pp98
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2015, 3:52 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

If you believe 49,843 unique people visited the library then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. What a joke.


Use - Last year our public library had 49,843 patrons visiting, and 41,314 items circulated. School library numbers are not included in these figures.

anon-ppq2 wrote:
Real issues:
Planning - Master plan has an access road connecting Park Place West and the School parking lot. The current School Board is not in favor of having this built. Space has been left in the plan in case it is decided to build it at a later date. Plans for a separate public library date have been in the works for many years.

Money – The capital campaign goal for solely for the new library. It is based on current construction costs. Estimate has included “escalation”. Township Committee has asked that all money be raised prior to the start of construction. The feasibility study said that the campaign would take three to five years. It is taking as long as expected.

The library’s day to day costs as well as capital costs are covered by the library appropriation. Money is regularly budgeted for repairs and upkeep.

No extra staff will be required to run the new library. The new energy efficient building will cost less to operate than the rent paid to the school. This includes a specially licensed school custodian who is required to be there when the library is opened and the school is closed, which includes weekends, evenings, holidays and summer vacation.

The school will not lose money when the public library moves out; the rent is based on the increased expenses of having the library open when the school is not including utilities and the specially licensed custodian. Once the library moves out, those expenses go away.

Control- Cranbury Public Library Foundation is raising the money for the specific goal of the building. Cranbury Public Library Board of Trustees runs the library.

Use - Last year our public library had 49,843 patrons visiting, and 41,314 items circulated. School library numbers are not included in these figures.

Future of Libraries – Libraries continue to be relevant with the focus changing from only books to professionally selected materials that match needs of the community. Also, with the ability to do so many things at home on our computers, there is a need to have a community gathering spot. Public libraries operate outside the political realm.

If you would like to fact check, all this information can be found through the public library website, board minutes, foundation information.
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anon-4840
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2015, 6:20 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

The number is tracked at the door electronically. So that number is better than some anonymous poster calling it BS.

However as there are no hours and people walk in as a family, kids run in and out, etc... I am not sure I would say 158 unique visitors came each day. But I could see a slightly lower average given the programs run. Even still it is a good number.

The circulation I don't doubt at all.
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anon-45p0
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2015, 7:20 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

School has the surveillance cameras and policy. No matter how they found out, they were concerned.
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anon-q2q6
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 10 2015, 9:53 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

anon-45p0 wrote:
...No matter how they found out...


Actually, it does matter. The library foundation keeps raising the issue of student safety as an excuse to build a new book barn. If the librarians or library board members portrayed a seemingly quiet and harmless library patron as a boogie man and raised the alarm with their school board representative a few days before the school board meeting (which seems likely), it is an outrageous example of the library board intentionally playing on parental fears to stoke support for their stalled endeavor.

If the librarians were really concerned about a library patron harming other library patrons, particularly school age children, shouldn't they have called the police immediately?
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anon-4q8s
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PostPosted: Fri, Dec 11 2015, 10:14 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

I see it differently. The school is allowing the library to shoulder all the heat in this campaign that clearly benefits them, too.
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Jan Murphy-0o99
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PostPosted: Fri, Dec 11 2015, 3:46 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

Regarding the gentlemen in the library: I felt that he had every right to be here. I wasn't sure he should be sitting in front of one of the computers all day, making it difficult for anyone else to use. But believe me, I would never ask him to leave. Especially since he did absolutely nothing to consider such a course of action.

I resent second/third hand and false information being posted on this forum as the truth. I am not OK with my professional colleagues, members of the board, or library foundation members being misquoted, misrepresented or maligned. Especially Director (Marilynn, by the way) Mullen who is frequently characterized unjustly and after she has worked so hard to make a new library a reality.

I'm physically present here, every day, in real time. I invite you to come in and speak with me personally and I will happily explain to you why I think Cranbury needs a new library. But knock off the crap on this forum.
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anon-4684
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PostPosted: Fri, Dec 11 2015, 9:42 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

Jan Murphy-0o99 wrote:
Regarding the gentlemen in the library: I felt that he had every right to be here. I wasn't sure he should be sitting in front of one of the computers all day, making it difficult for anyone else to use. But believe me, I would never ask him to leave. Especially since he did absolutely nothing to consider such a course of action.

I resent second/third hand and false information being posted on this forum as the truth.


So Jan, why don't you set the record straight? If the gentleman in the library did "absolutely nothing", why do you raise the alarm with the school board rep?
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anon-1o74
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PostPosted: Fri, Dec 11 2015, 10:25 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

If I may.

I see a number of concerns or comments here.

First, the school board liaison sits on the library board as a full member. The duty they have is to bring back summary information for the BOE. I sit on many work groups, interpractice groups etc... at work. I represent by practice in these groups and I do bring back summary to my leadership. I see it the same way.

If there was something off that occurred positive or negative it should be raised at the board level for discussion. This way board members are made aware.

I can't remember the last time a reporter covered the BOE meetings. So reporting back a summary I am fairly certain is not anticipated to become news worthy.

Therefore, I see no issue in the actions.
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no-pp98
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PostPosted: Sun, Dec 13 2015, 8:59 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

anon-4840 wrote:
The number is tracked at the door electronically. So that number is better than some anonymous poster calling it BS.

However as there are no hours and people walk in as a family, kids run in and out, etc... I am not sure I would say 158 unique visitors came each day. But I could see a slightly lower average given the programs run. Even still it is a good number.

The circulation I don't doubt at all.


I used to work at the library and we all knew the counter it counts people coming in and going out it is double counting also kids after school will go in and out many many times back and forth the numbers are not right we also knew from those numbers the only time other then when we ran a program that we were busy was after school when the kids were in the library. the rest of the the time we were open if kids were not in the library from the school we only would have a small trickle of people coming in and out of the library Cranbury does not need a new library
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anon-8368
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PostPosted: Mon, Dec 14 2015, 10:29 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

no-pp98 wrote:
anon-4840 wrote:
The number is tracked at the door electronically. So that number is better than some anonymous poster calling it BS.

However as there are no hours and people walk in as a family, kids run in and out, etc... I am not sure I would say 158 unique visitors came each day. But I could see a slightly lower average given the programs run. Even still it is a good number.

The circulation I don't doubt at all.


I used to work at the library and we all knew the counter it counts people coming in and going out it is double counting also kids after school will go in and out many many times back and forth the numbers are not right we also knew from those numbers the only time other then when we ran a program that we were busy was after school when the kids were in the library. the rest of the the time we were open if kids were not in the library from the school we only would have a small trickle of people coming in and out of the library Cranbury does not need a new library


The library does have numbers that would be more accurate and more useful, such as, how many unique adults check out materials on an average day?

For example, if roughly half of the check outs are adults, and the average check out includes 3 items, then there are approximately 7,000 adult check outs per year (41,314/2 = 20657/3 = 6886), or about 25 adults per day check out items from the library, on average. This equates to about 3 adult check outs per hour of operation.

Or as the previous library worker noted, aside from kids after school and a few special programs, only a small trickle of people come in and out of the library most of the time. Perhaps this is why the library won't share the numbers that really count?
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anon-4435
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PostPosted: Mon, Dec 14 2015, 8:24 pm EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

anon-8368 wrote:
no-pp98 wrote:
anon-4840 wrote:
The number is tracked at the door electronically. So that number is better than some anonymous poster calling it BS.

However as there are no hours and people walk in as a family, kids run in and out, etc... I am not sure I would say 158 unique visitors came each day. But I could see a slightly lower average given the programs run. Even still it is a good number.

The circulation I don't doubt at all.


I used to work at the library and we all knew the counter it counts people coming in and going out it is double counting also kids after school will go in and out many many times back and forth the numbers are not right we also knew from those numbers the only time other then when we ran a program that we were busy was after school when the kids were in the library. the rest of the the time we were open if kids were not in the library from the school we only would have a small trickle of people coming in and out of the library Cranbury does not need a new library


The library does have numbers that would be more accurate and more useful, such as, how many unique adults check out materials on an average day?

For example, if roughly half of the check outs are adults, and the average check out includes 3 items, then there are approximately 7,000 adult check outs per year (41,314/2 = 20657/3 = 6886), or about 25 adults per day check out items from the library, on average. This equates to about 3 adult check outs per hour of operation.

Or as the previous library worker noted, aside from kids after school and a few special programs, only a small trickle of people come in and out of the library most of the time. Perhaps this is why the library won't share the numbers that really count?


So, mathematically, there are usually about as many adult patrons in the library as there are librarians.

Why exactly do we need a new building?
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anon-pn6r
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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 15 2015, 10:00 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

The past employee knows very well how the number of visitors to the library is calculated, dividing the counter numbers in two, subtracting for the kids who go in and out of the doors. Perhaps they miss a few, just as they miss a few when a family of five comes in all at once. But logic and reason will not matter to those who like to double-down on their version of the truth. There was an opportunity to discuss real issues here, but to those who are not swayed by the reality of the situation - the public library does not belong in the school library - it will not matter.
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anon-s6p5
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PostPosted: Tue, Dec 15 2015, 10:17 am EST    Post subject: Re: Library's surveillance policy is discussed Reply with quote

I think discussing the facts is fine and appropriate.

However, clouding the facts with subjective comments either way is distorting.

It seems the pro library people are tied to the school element because they feel it is the best argument to use to win.

The anti-library people see no concern.

For most individuals the truth is in the middle. Is it the best solution to have the library in the school. No, it is not. Is it a crisis as it is projected, no it is not.

The issue is that I see is both sides create issues. Those citing safety annoy many people because it makes it sound like we're Trenton or other bad areas. This is not accurate and it rubs many people the wrong way.

The flip side is that there are some safety issues that should be addressed.

The one area the library ignores though is that there are solutions for security. Open later, work with the school so the kids are in there before say 1 or 2pm. Or do as they used to do and open at 3pm.
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