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Jeff M.
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 Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 8:44 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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That is why we need to keep balance on the TC so no one party has a 4-1 majority like today. It is why we can't elect people to multiple terms if they don't adhere to their promises. The TC method works and Cranbury really is a small town that has been managed very well historically based on our taxes. We may have a blip now, but I still believe the long term picture is solid for a TC system.
If you want to send a message if people run, just vote for the new blood. If 2 seats are open and there is only 1 new candidate then vote for that person only. If the person winning the bid for reelection wins with 100 votes or less it sends a very strong message. We don't have to vote for 2 people if there are 2 seats open. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 8:54 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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| Quote: | | If the Township Committee decides to borrow money to buy the bank, it will need four out of five members to support the decision, Mayor Stout said. |
I feel much better when I read the above. I think the TC will make the right decision if the motivation for the purchase is to retain the parking spaces. I am not so sure if the TC has the free-standing library in mind. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 9:10 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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| Jeff M. wrote: | The reason is that we end up bogging down the system and we end up in a series of management by vote which does not always do what is best in the town's interest.
Example:
- COAH homes need to go in and cost is 3 mill. It's an obligation and therefore a necessity. Does the town vote? Do we vote on location, expense, etc...
- Farmland comes up and can be preserved. It costs 2.5 mill, but protects against future development. The town has the ability to take on the debt at the time it comes up. The interests of the town are served buying the land. It goes to a vote and loses. A developer comes in and we have a housing development.
- The town offices are found to have an issue i.e. asbestos or mold that needs to be removed. The cost is 1 mill. Do we vote to authorize this remediation?
- What about engineering fees or large fees paid to engineers, lawyers, etc... Does the town vote?
When do we schedule votes? The idea of scheduling votes each time an issue arises can also be costly and gets empathy. It is why Robbinsville got rid of the fire elections. They had 5 or 6 elections in an average year.
Even if we have votes then those that lose will still be upset.
If people feel that they need a say and I hope they would, then vote for the TC member who will meet that need, run for office or encourage someone with your ideals to run for office. Hold the TC members accountable. Show up at meetings and make your opinion known.
I really do not like the idea of multiple elections or non-elected officials having material impact. I don't like the fact that we may disagree with the current TC and therefore want to rewrite the system that has worked for many, many years. It is not the system, but rather how the system is applied. |
It is possible to make distinctions between operational decisions springing from a project or new initiative and the initial vote to approve it. Other cities and even states do this, very large ones in fact.
You say the system has worked but that is not clear. In the last couple of years taxes have increased more than any other township in the county and at one of the highest rates in the State. While it is still better than many (we have the highest average property taxes in the country now but they are still better as a percentage of home value and income), the trend is terrible and the idea, apparently expressed by one TC member, that this gives us room move is fundamentally incorrect.
But for the sake of argument, let’s assume the best answer is to leave power exclusively in the hands of a TC. If we do, we should still reconsider the three year terms. As it stands now, we have had several key decisions affecting the Township for years to come and most if not all of the TC members supporting it can remain unaccountable to voters for years still. And they are choosing to do these things behind closed doors out of site of the public. Why? Why does a Township our size need long terms, longer even than members of Congress? Why not annual terms? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 9:16 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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| Guest wrote: | | Quote: | | If the Township Committee decides to borrow money to buy the bank, it will need four out of five members to support the decision, Mayor Stout said. |
I feel much better when I read the above. I think the TC will make the right decision if the motivation for the purchase is to retain the parking spaces. I am not so sure if the TC has the free-standing library in mind. |
Please. 4 of the 5 act as one unit and have alredy decided to favor it. And parking is just the excuse. Even if it wasn't, why should residential taxpayers pay well over $1M for 20 parking spaces? How will taxpayers directly see this money back over time a reasonable period of time? What is the IRR? What is the cost of capital?
What do you think they are going to do with the building once they buy the parking lot? Why not a Library? If you believe the TC isn't really doing this for a Library, get them to pledge that they won't later vote to use the building for a library. No chance they will agree because that is their real agenda regardless of what they say. |
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Jeff M.
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 9:21 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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You can't have effective management if there is no continuity. Plus, I believe it becomes harder to find people to run. That is why 3 year terms rotate and last year 2 people were up, one this year and 2 next. A complete turnover every year or other year does not allow for effective mgmt in business or government.
To get an expense passed like the ball field or PNC purchase they need a 4-1 vote. That is the control. Now, if you have a TC where it is a simple stamp then it does not work. However, things do balance out and voters who see this should vote for new blood. If they do not then it is their fault. There were times in Cranbury's history when it was a smaller council that the same issues arose.
I firmly believe the issue is people not system. Robbinsville really messed up their government when they changed to a TC method with elected mayor and non-partisian elections.
And yes, it is very clear the system works. Anyone who has lived in Cranbury for more than 10 or 15 years knows it works. We may have a blip like now, but that does not mean it does not work.
No system is perfect but with our size and the history we have with a clean town and clean elections this system does work. we just need more people voicing input, running for office and taking ownership. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 9:24 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | Quote: | | If the Township Committee decides to borrow money to buy the bank, it will need four out of five members to support the decision, Mayor Stout said. |
I feel much better when I read the above. I think the TC will make the right decision if the motivation for the purchase is to retain the parking spaces. I am not so sure if the TC has the free-standing library in mind. |
Please. 4 of the 5 act as one unit and have alredy decided to favor it. And parking is just the excuse. Even if it wasn't, why should residential taxpayers pay well over $1M for 20 parking spaces? How will taxpayers directly see this money back over time a reasonable period of time? What is the IRR? What is the cost of capital?
What do you think they are going to do with the building once they buy the parking lot? Why not a Library? If you believe the TC isn't really doing this for a Library, get them to pledge that they won't later vote to use the building for a library. No chance they will agree because that is their real agenda regardless of what they say. |
That is the big issue. Last year we had an opportunity for new blood and to make it a 3-2 council. Yet, we the voters chose to not elect Mr. Hasselbach. The blame really lies at the feet of the voters. |
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??
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 9:27 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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| I voted for Mr. Hasselbach! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 9:45 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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| Guest wrote: | | That is the big issue. Last year we had an opportunity for new blood and to make it a 3-2 council. Yet, we the voters chose to not elect Mr. Hasselbach. The blame really lies at the feet of the voters. |
True. But that's why the current system does not work, because the TC is not adequately accountable to the voters. Mr. Stout promised he would not support any not essential new projects but here we are. Some of the TC are not acting in good faith to the rhetoric of their election. Three year terms is too long and closed sessions should be the rare esception not the rule. I voted for the Democrats on the ballot but since have become utterly disgusted with some of their actions since. Yet there is nothing I can do to change the majority for a long time. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 9:52 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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| ?? wrote: | | I voted for Mr. Hasselbach! |
Frankly the local Republican party needed to front another candidate. Nothing against him personally, but he was way too associated with old iterms and ssues and didn't really appeal to the households who moved here in the last decade or so for the schools. |
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Jeff M.
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 9:58 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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| Guest wrote: | | Guest wrote: | | That is the big issue. Last year we had an opportunity for new blood and to make it a 3-2 council. Yet, we the voters chose to not elect Mr. Hasselbach. The blame really lies at the feet of the voters. |
True. But that's why the current system does not work, because the TC is not adequately accountable to the voters. Mr. Stout promised he would not support any not essential new projects but here we are. Some of the TC are not acting in good faith to the rhetoric of their election. Three year terms is too long and closed sessions should be the rare esception not the rule. I voted for the Democrats on the ballot but since have become utterly disgusted with some of their actions since. Yet there is nothing I can do to change the majority for a long time. |
I agree that the actions of the TC are out of line. I agree that closed sessions are improper. And if we appoint a financial committee there is no guarantee. If we voter referendum on every expense there is greater potential for interest today making the long term suffer. A TC should look out for the long term and can do that better than mass voting. Otherwise Cranbury would have been poorly run for years. The system does work if people vote in new blood when prior TC's don't do the job. Voters vote in the same old people and expect different results than it is the voters fault not the system's. By your own admission you voted for the two democrates. That means you ignored their history on the TC. Trust me your not alone. However, now people are saying change the system. Don't change the system change the people. If the balance is 3-2 then the PNC buy couldn't get done. If the balance is 4-1 and it's a financially conservative council the town is in great shape. This period is the exception. |
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Cranbury Conservative
Joined: Tue, Apr 29 2008, 9:26 am EDT
Posts: 287
Location: Old Cranbury Road
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| Posted: Fri, May 16 2008, 11:26 pm EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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I agree we do not need to change the system.
We do however need to remember what this TC (minus Mr. Whittman) has done in regard to the Babe Ruth Field, the Re-Evaluation, and now this PNC Issue if they do indeed vote in a partisan manner on Monday the 19th.
We need to remember the unneeded debt they have accrued for this community and vote them out of office.
Then we need to replace them with fiscal conservative’s whether they be Democrat, Republican or independent. |
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M.W.T.
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| Posted: Sat, May 17 2008, 7:32 am EDT Post subject: Re: PNC Bank on agenda - Large crowd expected for meeting |
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CC,
As the husband of a democratic wife and long time resident, I want to make a clarification. The Democratic group in town is well organized and will vote party line. This has been the way since Ms. BB was on TC. So even a financially conservative Democrate to me is a risk because of how the party aligns in town and today they will not allow an independent democrate to run.
As the other poster said, it is a lot like congress. You need a full swing in the Rep. parties direction in order to invoke change. If a Democrate takes over WW seat then it will be 5-0 votes. In 2009 we need a 3-2 majority in the Republican favor and we need to ensure that those individuals hold their promises. I think they will because they are the new majority. Just make sure you vote for older residents. That way they have been around to see both forms of government and understand the concerns. |
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