Home Prices in Cranbury
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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 22 2009, 8:58 pm EDT    Post subject: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Many home owners in Cranbury are listing their houses as if we are not in a recession. Don't they realize that the home values have gone down significantly in the last few months? Many are looking at the township assessed value from 2 years ago and thinking that their house is still worth the same amount. Many homes have been listed at very unrealistic prices. It doesn't look like there are many home sales in the past few months. I keep seeing the same houses listed for a very very long time. Am I the only one that feels this way?
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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 22 2009, 9:16 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

It depends on how disparate the home owners want to sell it fast.

It's a buyer's market. If you really like a home, make an offer. You may be surprised.
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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 22 2009, 9:17 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

It depends. If you're looking for a 25-30% decrease it's not realistic. I had my house appraised twice in the last two years by separate appraisers. My house was appraised within 5,000 and the reports were independent.

I can't say it's an overall issue.
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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 22 2009, 9:35 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
It depends. If you're looking for a 25-30% decrease it's not realistic. I had my house appraised twice in the last two years by separate appraisers. My house was appraised within 5,000 and the reports were independent.

I can't say it's an overall issue.


Appraisals are really useless in determining true market value. In fact, the appraiser industry shares responsibility for the housing bubble.

But I agree a 20-25% reduction is not realistic in most cases. Houses are selling. I also agree with others that some owners are wasting people's time with unrealistic prices though and those are the ones that have been on the market for the better part of a year or more...
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PostPosted: Wed, Apr 22 2009, 9:55 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

That's inaccurate. A credible appraiser's report is a solid indication of market value because it considers most recent sales and comps. Yes, there are bad appraisers like any industry, but a good appraiser's report is a solid indication of market value. Now, whether the home sells for that price is a different story. However, it is a fair indication of value.
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PostPosted: Thu, Apr 23 2009, 10:58 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
That's inaccurate. A credible appraiser's report is a solid indication of market value because it considers most recent sales and comps. Yes, there are bad appraisers like any industry, but a good appraiser's report is a solid indication of market value. Now, whether the home sells for that price is a different story. However, it is a fair indication of value.


We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. While I agree that an appraisal can theoretically come up to a good valuation, my experience is the industry is mostly rife with hacks. There is so much room for subjectivity in selecting comps and deciding which features to use to add or subtract value from the comps and still get critical market facts wrong. I've bought and sold 5 houses and helped many others and have seen dozens of appraisals in numerous markets. I don’t think any of them were worth much – they were useful for raw data about the comps but not in the final assessment of the actual current market value of the house being appraised. As a rule, appraisals overstate the fair market value (i.e. what someone is actually willing to pay) in most cases. And that is the only “true” value of a house – what someone will pay.

When we bought our latest house the owner was asking over 25% more than the house was worth, best case, and had absolutely no offers after months. He stubbornly showed us 3 separate independent appraisals, all within the last 6 months, that put the house as worth substantially more than it realistically should have been. Eventually he relented to sell to us. It wasn’t a fire sale, we paid a very realistic fair market value at the time, and it is certainly worth less now. His appraisers were all just blowing smoke up his … And the proof is what it sold for – that is its real value.

It doesn’t take an appraiser to get the approximate value of your home. Prices in Cranbury are down, on average, about 15+% from their peak value in early 2006. And we also conveniently have the Township reassessment from Fall 2006. As a rule of thumb, if you think your house is worth as much or more as that assessment or better than 90% of 2005/6 values, you are certainly wrong. There are no “exceptions” – your house is not “special.” It is not made of golden nails. Whatever you see in it that made it special to you, whatever improvements you’ve doesn’t that you love don’t really matter in the end to the market as much as they do to you.
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PostPosted: Thu, Apr 23 2009, 6:03 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Remind me NOT to have my kids ask you about Santa!
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PostPosted: Thu, Apr 23 2009, 6:46 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
Remind me NOT to have my kids ask you about Santa!


Yes, truth hurts sometimes. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri, Apr 24 2009, 10:14 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Part of the problem is that in the stock and housing run-ups of the ‘90’s and this decade people started routinely tracking the hypothetical value of their stocks and homes as if it were a tangible value that they already “earned” when of course this was never true. People started to closely watching the sales of their neighbors and doing math in their heads about what their home, which they almost always perceive as better or more special than those of their neighbors, was worth X, then thinking about that X as if it were money in a bank account that they could draw on if they ever needed it, whether by sale or an equity loan. And they started counting their hypothetical home value in their net worth, which any expert would tell you never to do.

So of course when prices start to come down, with that psychology in play, they now interpret any loss in value as if someone has taken money out of their piggy bank. If someone bought 10 years ago for $400,000 and could sell today for $650,000, the correct and historical way to look at it is that they made a profit of $250,000. But in the twisted logic of those who played the “fantasy” housing market as if they were earning dividends on their hypothetical home value along the way, they look at the $650,000 against the market peak of $900,000 and convince themselves that they are selling for a $250,000 loss.

That’s simply not true and never was. People who sold at the peak or in the run-up often made a tidy profit, but that profit only existed for those who sold then. It had absolutely no relevance to the home values or net worth of those who didn’t. It was never their money, never “earned,” never real. Of course banks, with the complicity aid of the appraisal industry (as well as the mortgage brokers, title cos and other benefitting parties), played on this national psychosis readily, encouraging people to think this way and offering equity loans and lines of credit that fed on the illusion that the home value increases really was “good as cash” money in the bank.

So here we are and some people are having trouble accepting that reality. Of course they had no problem quickly embracing it as the home bubble floated up in defiance of natural market gravity, but that one-way psychology is typical of the species so what can you do. Those who need to sell will and will eventually adapt to the true market reality, whatever it is. Those who don’t need to sell and have their eyes open won’t right now. And those who want but don’t need to sell and did the fantasy math will put their houses up at unrealistic prices and contribute to New Jersey’s 11.7 months glut of stalled inventory, doing token reductions at the begging / behest of their brokers and likely eventually withdrawing from the market, bitter and shocked that people expect them to sell at a “loss” that’s really a substantial profit.
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PostPosted: Fri, Apr 24 2009, 10:34 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

It is my experience in NJ that home assessment firms are mostly referred to the home buyer by some real-estate firm, and are obliged in a way to inflate the appraisal and get more work from these real-estate firms. So indeed they are incented to inflate the housing prices to make more money for the real-estate firms that refer them in the first place, a catch22 for the buyer – So buyer beware.

I have found, if an independent consultant assesses a house “REALISTICALLY” and it happens to be lower then the real-estate firm like Coldwell Banker wanted, it would black ball the agent and not give them any additional business. I personally have experienced this (in Cranbury by Coldwell Banker (CB) myself). An agent gave a "REALISTIC" report on a house for me, was then blackballed by CB from future work in my area of Cranbury. And another assessment from a different agent assessment was way high and the agency kept using him in Cranbury area.

So any new home buyers, please be careful and use your Lawyers assessment firm (instead of your realtors). They will recommend someone that will assess any house much higher then it should be, that has been my person experience here in Cranbury NJ. This is a tip from an educated consumer, use your lawyers firm period.
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PostPosted: Fri, Apr 24 2009, 11:44 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

I am happy that some sellers have decided to keep their prices up. If they are not in a rush to sell, why should they compromise on price? Plus, their prices help hold up the prices of other houses in town.
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PostPosted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 8:40 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
I am happy that some sellers have decided to keep their prices up. If they are not in a rush to sell, why should they compromise on price? Plus, their prices help hold up the prices of other houses in town.


Nice theory but it’s not true. There's plenty of research on this. The market just doesn’t work that way. When people artificially inflate the values of their homes on the market by not reacting to the real market conditions it cause the available inventory on the market to increase. This ends up throwing the ratio of home buyers to homes sellers out of whack. In a normal market there should be about three months of “inventory” on the market – meaning there are enough houses for sale at any given time to satisfy three months worth of viable buyers. That number has swelled to almost a year’s worth of inventory in this area right now, meaning in any given month there is approximately twelve-times as many homes available as viable, active buyers for them.

And twelve months of inventory doesn’t translate to everyone just taking longer to sell their home, because at any given time a large percentage of the sellers on the market are compelled to sell their home for any given reason whether it is personal financial, a relocation, etc. So those people have to react to the glut of supply by being even more aggressive with their prices than they otherwise would have had to be, thus actually accelerating price declines in the market faster than they would have had the market not been artificially loaded with the inventory by seller who aren’t serious enough about selling to list at prices people will take seriously.

So while its nice to fantasize that people can inflate the current value of their home and thus prop up a local market by sheer force of will it just doesn’t play out that way. In order for your theory to have worked, people would need to eventually buy the houses with propped up sale prices, thus skewing up the average price in the local market. But there’s no evidence this happens. Instead, those sellers either gradually reduce their ask price until after much wasted time on the market it reaches a fair market range, or they eventually accept an offer far below their list price, or they withdraw from the market without a sale. None of those results justify the benefit of having listed too high in the first place. There are several major factors contributing to the rate of home value decline, but the psychological resistance of sellers to accept the current market realities is one of them. As a point of fact, the market would be better if people who aren’t prepared to accept the current market conditions simply didn’t bother to list their house at all. If they don’t have to sell they are obviously better off waiting out the down market (unless they are worried the prices will fall further by the time they do have to sell in which case they don’t do themselves any favors by resisting the very conditions of the market that have worried them into selling in the first place – if you think the stock market is going down you don’t try to dump your stock by putting out an ask above the current bids). If they have to sell, they should do themselves a favor and quickly reach a fair market price because research also shows that they actually increase the chances of an even lower eventual sale price if their house is on the market too long because the price is too high.
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PostPosted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 9:14 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
It is my experience in NJ that home assessment firms are mostly referred to the home buyer by some real-estate firm, and are obliged in a way to inflate the appraisal and get more work from these real-estate firms. So indeed they are incented to inflate the housing prices to make more money for the real-estate firms that refer them in the first place, a catch22 for the buyer – So buyer beware.

I have found, if an independent consultant assesses a house “REALISTICALLY” and it happens to be lower then the real-estate firm like Coldwell Banker wanted, it would black ball the agent and not give them any additional business. I personally have experienced this (in Cranbury by Coldwell Banker (CB) myself). An agent gave a "REALISTIC" report on a house for me, was then blackballed by CB from future work in my area of Cranbury. And another assessment from a different agent assessment was way high and the agency kept using him in Cranbury area.

So any new home buyers, please be careful and use your Lawyers assessment firm (instead of your realtors). They will recommend someone that will assess any house much higher then it should be, that has been my person experience here in Cranbury NJ. This is a tip from an educated consumer, use your lawyers firm period.



In all the homes I bought not once did a bank allow me the choice of an appraiser. Rather they dictated who to use Similarly when we sold I called the bank for references. When I listed I did so at 10,000 above the highest. I always sold within a few months even in the late 80's and always got close to the appraised value.
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PostPosted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 9:36 am EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

The funny thing I notice is that when people complain of prices being inflated they are doing so usually because they are looking to buy.

A seller won't complain because they want the money.

An owner won't complain because they aren't moving and if their neighbor's home in a down market sells for 1 million then it does help them. Similarly, if that home sold for 300,000 it hurts them.

A buyer benefits from posting and pushing for lower prices.

Not that homes are over or under priced, all it takes is one buyer. However, typically the first two groups don't care or do have interest in higher selling prices.
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PostPosted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 4:44 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Guest wrote:
The funny thing I notice is that when people complain of prices being inflated they are doing so usually because they are looking to buy.

A seller won't complain because they want the money.

An owner won't complain because they aren't moving and if their neighbor's home in a down market sells for 1 million then it does help them. Similarly, if that home sold for 300,000 it hurts them.

A buyer benefits from posting and pushing for lower prices.

Not that homes are over or under priced, all it takes is one buyer. However, typically the first two groups don't care or do have interest in higher selling prices.


Guest wrote:
The funny thing I notice is that when people complain of prices being inflated they are doing so usually because they are looking to buy.

A seller won't complain because they want the money.

An owner won't complain because they aren't moving and if their neighbor's home in a down market sells for 1 million then it does help them. Similarly, if that home sold for 300,000 it hurts them.

A buyer benefits from posting and pushing for lower prices.

Not that homes are over or under priced, all it takes is one buyer. However, typically the first two groups don't care or do have interest in higher selling prices.


I'm not a buyer, but I'm the one that posted the market explanations above. As a local owner not looking to sell anytime soon (as in many years), I should fit into the group you generalize as not wanting to complain about high prices but I don't. I of course theoretically benefit from the home prices remaining as high as possible. And I remain very bullish on home prices over the very long term. But to the point I made earlier, there’s no point in fooling myself. Until I decide to sell my home value is entirely theoretical. So I choose to keep my eyes open and honestly assess the market.

From what I've seen the prices people are asking in Cranbury are all over the board. A good percentage are fairly priced, and a decent amount are ridiculously over-priced. There are even a couple true bargains. There are a few asking radically over their assessment value. These people aren't serious or are deluded.

Unfortunately the brokers know this but they are so eager for work that they often appease these sellers and tell them what they want to hear, hoping to change their minds after they get the listings and see the lack of initial offers. The “all it takes is a buyer” is one of the statements you often hear from such brokers, that notion that, “hey, it’s your house, list it for what you think is fair and all it takes is a buyer.” It’s actually a very cynical statement because it has no real meaning. Sure, all it takes is a buyer, they say, just like someone could say they want to retire on their own private island and their investment advisor could say, “We’ll you could play the lottery every week – all it takes are the right numbers.” In other words, anything is possible, which is not the same as saying they are being realistic or not wasting their time and energy.

Take a look at this listing for example:

http://cranbury.info/viewtopic.php?t=2059

It went on sale in 2007. It’s still sitting there. Because the price was and still is way too high for the market right now. Sure, all it takes is a buyer…

This one is a newer listing but is similarly living in fantasyland and will either quietly drop off the market unsold or sell for way, way less:

http://cranbury.info/viewtopic.php?t=3224

Here’s another one that seriously overreached in its asking price and has wasted its time on the market and now has reduced substantially from its first ask:

http://cranbury.info/viewtopic.php?t=2817

But all it takes is a buyer. You keep telling yourself that. If you keep just clicking the heels of those ruby slippers and chant “There’s no place like (my) home, a buyer will come” over and over it might work one day…

That said, an owner is entitled to do virtually anything they want with their home, including pretending to sell it and asking unrealistic prices. I love this free country. Let’s just not mistake that for the notion that the market will magically adapt to the wishes of these sellers. It just doesn’t work that way. If someone knows there is a 95% chance they are wasting their time, fine, but otherwise it is unfortunate that they are allowed to waste their time because they are surrounded by yes-men brokers chasing any shot at a commission however slim.
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PostPosted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 5:10 pm EDT    Post subject: Re: Home Prices in Cranbury Reply with quote

Gee. That $1.8 million listing on Petty Road sure makes the other listings on Petty seem like bargains.

Seems like your theories start to break down in situations where there is such a short list of comparable inventory.

Your comments remind me of an agent I interviewed. Had I listened to her, I would have listed my house for 20 percent less than I sold it for.
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